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Consequences of A Bored Null
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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-01-30 21:23:47 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
CCP looked at this and decided their work was complete, and would not iterate on nullsec for the next 2 1/2 years after threats of mass unsubs, instead focusing on developing WoW-style raids and Space Barbie.


Hrm... If I didn't know any better, it seems CCP can justify itself with its current subscription numbers.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-01-30 21:27:24 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
CCP looked at this and decided their work was complete, and would not iterate on nullsec for the next 2 1/2 years after threats of mass unsubs, instead focusing on developing WoW-style raids and Space Barbie.


Hrm... If I didn't know any better, it seems CCP can justify itself with its current subscription numbers.

But you do know better, don't you?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2013-01-30 21:28:44 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:


Tell you what get your goons buddies onboard and recruit existing industrialist player to live in you're NPC station, give them protection services and they will fill you're NPC station full of items, just drop the requirements that joining must be SA forums.


As someone who does build stuff I will just take this time to tell you that it is not only far cheaper to build everything in empire and ship it to null but there are also nowhere near enough slots to build much of anything in null sec.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-01-30 21:30:37 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:

Tell you what get your goons buddies onboard and recruit existing industrialist player to live in you're NPC station, give them protection services and they will fill you're NPC station full of items, just drop the requirements that joining must be SA forums.



We already have industrial characters. I have one that I use to build non-capships in nullsec. And I'm considered an oddball for doing it.

Most of our members end up moving their industry operations to highsec for a variety of reasons. If you want to make T2 stuff, it is pretty much required you do it in highsec because it is the only place where you can easily acquire and move large amounts of T2 building materials. Even our members who mine (and yes, we do have guys that enjoy mining for some reason) have been packing up and moving to highsec because of current mineral prices. You can make more consistent income sucking up scordite and pyroxeres a few jumps out of Jita than dealing with spod and maintaining a high industry index in some backwater nullsec system.


Much of our complaints about highsec industry and ideas for nerfs are about getting out own industry guys to move back to nullsec.

Sir you said earlier that industry in hi is not confined to hi, and that to you as a null industrialist it's a big f'ing deal, one of my problems living in null was the lack of BPC BPO availablility, I tried to change that I got blown to bits trying to "make it" work the problem I had and you have is that most industrialists do not want to be constant targets it's contrary to building.

If you assure me it's a problem then why, can't you sell them to corp mates?

You want higher prices for hi end minerals null has to tighten supply just like OPEC does IRL those Arab states have a conglomeration all working to keep supplies at a certain level, which involves cooperation most nullies can't seem to do.

There is a reason why industry doesn't work in null but it is not hi sec.
See gun toting trigger happy folks, see mineral supply, see moon goo sales, see unable to dock at outposts, it's not a hi sec thing, why can't null sec see this.

I just wonder why you make it sound like it's hi sec's fault null can't get it together but at the same time a Goon said he'd get a fleet of 6000 tornados to visit hi sec but yet I'm supposed to believe industry in null is broken thru and thru?

No, I said that.

High sec is not a bubble, it does not have a seperate economy, and it is not on it's own server. You are not playing a seperate game from me because you're in high sec.

You can not "tighten" supply of minerals, nor have I ever said mineral prices need to be higher.
Null already regulates tech, just like OPEC. Who controls the price of steal? Aluminum? That's the equivilent of minerals in EVE. Tech is like rare earth minerals, China has most of it, and they're now attempting to conrol it's flow and consumption.


The thing I like most about null is that I have no trouble doing invention. Copying and invention slots are up to whoever is setting up your station. If they don't have one with enough then that's there fault, I have zero trouble with that in null. Manufacturing slots are incredibly limitted, and it's frustrating because my other options aren't options because of the cost of those lines.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-01-30 21:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
Piugattuk wrote:

Sir you said earlier that industry in hi is not confined to hi, and that to you as a null industrialist it's a big f'ing deal, one of my problems living in null was the lack of BPC BPO availablility, I tried to change that I got blown to bits trying to "make it" work the problem I had and you have is that most industrialists do not want to be constant targets it's contrary to building.


Getting blown up is part of living in nullsec. My operation works because there is a decent mark-up for importing stuff. So if I can produce locally and not get blown up, I can undercut the importers and still make a health profit.

Quote:

If you assure me it's a problem then why, can't you sell them to corp mates?


I don't understand this.

Quote:

You want higher prices for hi end minerals null has to tighten supply just like OPEC does IRL those Arab states have a conglomeration all working to keep supplies at a certain level, which involves cooperation most nullies can't seem to do.


This isn't possible with asteroid minerals because they are found all over nullsec, sov and npc, so no one group can really control it all. Also, most of the nullsec minerals can be reprocessed out of rat loot.

Quote:

There is a reason why industry doesn't work in null but it is not hi sec.
See gun toting trigger happy folks...


Those trigger happy guys are the reason I have any decent sales at all. If stuff didn't get blown up, people wouldn't be buying stuff from me.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-01-30 21:33:47 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
CCP looked at this and decided their work was complete, and would not iterate on nullsec for the next 2 1/2 years after threats of mass unsubs, instead focusing on developing WoW-style raids and Space Barbie.


Hrm... If I didn't know any better, it seems CCP can justify itself with its current subscription numbers.

But you do know better, don't you?


I'm only saying record subscription numbers and record current connected users seem to be saying something along the lines of "Our wallet full of money says you are wrong."

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#67 - 2013-01-30 21:35:07 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:

I believe CCP designed this game to have Nullsec as lawless space, not a safe haven for organized industry and production. Which certainly doesn't fit in with Goonswarms vision of what they want THEIR nullsec to be.

Who said anything about making it safe? Unsafe industry is the entire point.

Tell me, do you think the current system, where Goons have maximized the profit they receive for delivering raw Tech, and minimized the manufacturing of said tech into products by outsourcing it to a region flooded with cheap labor that has no recourse but to undercut each other, disadvantages them?

I'm beginning to see the problem.

You guys seem to think that a single area of null can produce the T2 components that a single industrialist needs.
That's impossible.

The stuff that goes into building T2 goods doesn't come out of a single region of New Eden. Some of it will come from here, some from there, and it all meets in the middle.

High sec is like ancient middle east. Trade routes from Europe, Africa, and Asia all converged in regions of the middle east. An asian trader doesn't deliver silk and spices to Rome or Egypt, they sold them to Roman and Egyptian traders in towns in the middle east.

Some Arab tribes become very wealthy and powerful for as long as those trade routes all converged on thier territory; that is Jita.

You can not fix this with a buff to null sec, it's intended to work this way.
The balance can only come from higher T2 production in high sec through the NPC stations, as well as limitting the available slots for T2 production to encourage more of it being done in PoS and low and null stations.

We are not self sustaining, and you guys keep thinking we are.


And what happened to those rich states that got fat and lazy, decadent, corrupt, greedy?
If anyone in hi sec is getting rich it ante me....blame the traders they are the one's who set prices I assure you when it comes to trading I stink.

Why won't you large alliances learn to trade moo goo, supplies become tightened in trade hub prices spike moon gooey Louises win?
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#68 - 2013-01-30 21:35:30 UTC
Man, I should be selling "Asbestos Underwear" for this thread... and a few others like it. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-01-30 21:35:41 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
CCP looked at this and decided their work was complete, and would not iterate on nullsec for the next 2 1/2 years after threats of mass unsubs, instead focusing on developing WoW-style raids and Space Barbie.


Hrm... If I didn't know any better, it seems CCP can justify itself with its current subscription numbers.

But you do know better, don't you?


I'm only saying record subscription numbers and record current connected users seem to be saying something along the lines of "Our wallet full of money says you are wrong."

Yes, it says they reopened the chinese server recently it's been logging more activety then the previous one did.

We didn't grow really, serenity did.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2013-01-30 21:36:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:


Tell you what get your goons buddies onboard and recruit existing industrialist player to live in you're NPC station, give them protection services and they will fill you're NPC station full of items, just drop the requirements that joining must be SA forums.


As someone who does build stuff I will just take this time to tell you that it is not only far cheaper to build everything in empire and ship it to null but there are also nowhere near enough slots to build much of anything in null sec.

Im curious about this.

http://eve.1019.net/pos/?ct=00&mod=03030303031N1N1N1N1N1O1O1O1O1O1P1P1P1P1P0V0V0V0V0W0W0W0W0U0U&off=

That has more production slots than a hisec station 5x, they can be traded around if you want to make more and it can be tanked better without losing as much production as a station.
And as there are more moons than stations well why are you complaining?
Aside from logistics but that is separate from your claim.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2013-01-30 21:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
CCP looked at this and decided their work was complete, and would not iterate on nullsec for the next 2 1/2 years after threats of mass unsubs, instead focusing on developing WoW-style raids and Space Barbie.


Hrm... If I didn't know any better, it seems CCP can justify itself with its current subscription numbers.

But you do know better, don't you?


I'm only saying record subscription numbers and record current connected users seem to be saying something along the lines of "Our wallet full of money says you are wrong."

Oh so you wrote "If I didn't know any better" because you read it in a book or something.
I guess that "summer of rage" was actually over nothing and CCP laid of 20% of its success for no reason because according to "Captain Tardbar" CCP was in a really successful financial state at the time. You see he's got this link to "vgchartz.com" where thanks largely to Chinese server growth EVE subs topped 450k - what a relief, Hilmar apologized to the playerbase for nothing!

Great post.
Ginger Barbarella
#72 - 2013-01-30 21:38:02 UTC
Half way through the first page and I must say it looks like the OP has struck a nerve. Very well done.

I'm going to have to read the rest to see where this soap opera takes us!

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#73 - 2013-01-30 21:40:52 UTC
Kari Juptris wrote:
Tell me more about these static fountains. I'd love to go park five accounts right on top of them.


The fact that you have 5 accounts should say something.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-01-30 21:41:02 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:


And what happened to those rich states that got fat and lazy, decadent, corrupt, greedy?
If anyone in hi sec is getting rich it ante me....blame the traders they are the one's who set prices I assure you when it comes to trading I stink.

Why won't you large alliances learn to trade moo goo, supplies become tightened in trade hub prices spike moon gooey Louises win?

?

Please tell me what it was that I wrote that gave you the impression that I give a **** about you as a non-industrialist.

Nothing I write about would ever impact you, ever. Not ever. So why are you even responding to anything I write?

If you want to know what I think CCP should do to fix my issues.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=195938

I don't want to nerf anything.
You guys are to focused on the corp I'm in.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2013-01-30 21:43:55 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:


Tell you what get your goons buddies onboard and recruit existing industrialist player to live in you're NPC station, give them protection services and they will fill you're NPC station full of items, just drop the requirements that joining must be SA forums.


As someone who does build stuff I will just take this time to tell you that it is not only far cheaper to build everything in empire and ship it to null but there are also nowhere near enough slots to build much of anything in null sec.

Im curious about this.

http://eve.1019.net/pos/?ct=00&mod=03030303031N1N1N1N1N1O1O1O1O1O1P1P1P1P1P0V0V0V0V0W0W0W0W0U0U&off=

That has more production slots than a hisec station 5x, they can be traded around if you want to make more and it can be tanked better without losing as much production as a station.
And as there are more moons than stations well why are you complaining?
Aside from logistics but that is separate from your claim.



That is 900,000,000isk in capital expenditures, and almost 400,000,000isk a month in overhead for fuel costs. And that isn't factoring in what ever the local rules are for running alt corps and dropping towers in sov nullsec.

Logistics is _never_ a separate issue when it comes to manufacturing. Living in highsec, where logistics are easier, only makes it seem that logistics is a non-issue.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-01-30 21:44:46 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:

Im curious about this.

http://eve.1019.net/pos/?ct=00&mod=03030303031N1N1N1N1N1O1O1O1O1O1P1P1P1P1P0V0V0V0V0W0W0W0W0U0U&off=

That has more production slots than a hisec station 5x, they can be traded around if you want to make more and it can be tanked better without losing as much production as a station.
And as there are more moons than stations well why are you complaining?
Aside from logistics but that is separate from your claim.

So we can anchor more than one PoS to a moon now?

And why would you put that in null when you've got even more moons available in high sec; where you don't have to import anything to build.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#77 - 2013-01-30 21:45:20 UTC
Of course we are focused on the ALLIANCE you are in.

Scammers, cheaters, self proclaimed destroyers of other folks fun in games for the lulz.

Most of you are very hard to take seriously, despite the fact that some of you are very knowledgeable about the game.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-01-30 21:47:34 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:

Im curious about this.

http://eve.1019.net/pos/?ct=00&mod=03030303031N1N1N1N1N1O1O1O1O1O1P1P1P1P1P0V0V0V0V0W0W0W0W0U0U&off=

That has more production slots than a hisec station 5x, they can be traded around if you want to make more and it can be tanked better without losing as much production as a station.
And as there are more moons than stations well why are you complaining?
Aside from logistics but that is separate from your claim.

So we can anchor more than one PoS to a moon now?

And why would you put that in null when you've got even more moons available in high sec; where you don't have to import anything to build.



Don't forget, that POS on a highsec moon would require a wardec to be attacked enough to be reinforced, and it couldn't be attacked with anything bigger than a battleship.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2013-01-30 21:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
That's a good point Shepard.
What if accessing station services for a highsec station cost a 125m flat fee and 90m isk per month after that.
Then highsec and nullsec industry would legit be on even footing.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-01-30 21:52:11 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Of course we are focused on the ALLIANCE you are in.

Scammers, cheaters, self proclaimed destroyers of other folks fun in games for the lulz.

Most of you are very hard to take seriously, despite the fact that some of you are very knowledgeable about the game.

So you prescribe to stereotyping, and treating others as you expect them to treat you?

The only thing my corp indicates, other then being an individual of high standards, taste, and intillect, is that I have experience playing EVE in a multitude of enviroments.

I spent far longer in high sec than I have in null.