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Consequences of A Bored Null
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Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#301 - 2013-02-01 22:00:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Quote:
Just fold up your station and go somewhere else for a week. That is a way to avoid combat that is perfectly scaled to the size of a corp.


well aware of that, it seems like Malcanis thinks that should cost me alot of isk, avoiding the "privledge" of being attacked by a very large enemy, in high sec.


And he's right.


So you feel there is no room in this game for small groups of like minded people to just mind their business and do what they want?

These small groups should have to PAY because some large, bored isk rich Corp war decs them to shake them down?

Well they can keep deccing me, and will keep using all available game mechanics to make sure they have wasted their isk, and time.

No KM's, no contact just a little hole in their wallet.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#302 - 2013-02-01 22:09:40 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Quote:
Just fold up your station and go somewhere else for a week. That is a way to avoid combat that is perfectly scaled to the size of a corp.


well aware of that, it seems like Malcanis thinks that should cost me alot of isk, avoiding the "privledge" of being attacked by a very large enemy, in high sec.


And he's right.


So you feel there is no room in this game for small groups of like minded people to just mind their business and do what they want?

These small groups should have to PAY because some large, bored isk rich Corp war decs them to shake them down?

Well they can keep deccing me, and will keep using all available game mechanics to make sure they have wasted their isk, and time.

No KM's, no contact just a little hole in their wallet.


So what are you complaining about? Seems like you have figured it out. If you are smaller, you just try to avoid them.

The other option is to cave in, or get more friends. But if you want to take pride in being a little guy, then you'll have to take some pride in being about to avoid the big guys.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#303 - 2013-02-01 22:11:11 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:


So you feel there is no room in this game for small groups of like minded people to just mind their business and do what they want?


Yes, as long as they are smart enough to protect it.

Quote:

These small groups should have to PAY because some large, bored isk rich Corp war decs them to shake them down?


Yes, either that or get more people (becoming a large group themselves) and fight back.

Quote:

Well they can keep deccing me, and will keep using all available game mechanics to make sure they have wasted their isk, and time.

No KM's, no contact just a little hole in their wallet.


and anyone else would too. Handing someone kills is stupid.

But the cost of such protections is too low for a game that it's makers always say is about consequences. What you are saying is the same thing as the anti-suicide ganking types. you think you should be left alone in an mmo to play as you want.

Well, sorry, no. Even should be harsh, and you should only have that which you can defend, nothing more.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#304 - 2013-02-01 22:15:22 UTC
Don't expect to be left alone, it is eve.

It's just way to cheap for a big corp to Dec a tiny corp, IMHO.

Don't want to say too much, but we didn't just throw in the towel. Cost me a whole lot more than it would have if I had just given in.

But I didn't pay the agressors a .01 isk, and never will.

Sorry OP, this started becuase I answered your request for 4 points to improve game.

Whoops. Oops

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#305 - 2013-02-01 22:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
It's difficult to imagine these sort of arguments coming from anywhere but highsec.

"do you actually believe I should have to pay something to get out of this gatecamp who have my freighter tackled?"

"do you actually believe an alliance of 1000 should be able to reinforce a POS that belongs to a 100-man corp?"



What is not difficult to imagine is a null-seccer distorting what I said so badly.

The word you're looking for is 'summarizing', not 'distorting', and instead of 'badly', you meant 'accurately'.
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:

I will go along with costs that reflect the economic reality. My 4 man industrial corp was recently war-decced by a 100 man + Alliance, nothing but an isk shakedown attempt..PERIOD.

Do you actually believe it should cost me a significant amount to dodge that shakedown attempt?

Do you, as a CSM candidate, believe that large entities with more isk, people, assets etc should just be able to grief, bully and/or bankrupt small operations just because they can and have more isk to spend?

You are incredulous at Malcanis at questioning your entitlement to evade non-consensual PVP.
Other examples of non-consensual PVP are freighter ganks in lowsec and sov/POS warfare.
Do we get thread though from people angry at the thought that they might have to pay some sort of cost (like a ransom) to get their freighter alive out of the gatecamp? No? Wonder why...
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#306 - 2013-02-02 00:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Rellik B00n wrote:


3. Low sec
Under populated. No unique reason to visit this area in terms of resources but FW is providing much needed life. FW working much better than first implementation but still requires additional iterations.


if I was to prioritise CCPs workload for the coming year based on system security my list would look like this:
1. null sec
2. low sec
3. high sec and worm holes.


low sec is sort of pointless - by default if you own null sec you can use your resources to take low sec so mentally you already own these areas....

to those of us living freely in our own area of the sandbox ask the following:

of a given request for change, who will benefit most?


Lowsec is not underpopulated! Too many of the refugiee’s from Delve moved into the southern regions; and the FW carnival rides are a mess. Do you spend any time in lowsec?

The only thing we need is more options for “interacting” with our fellow players, especially the unaware and AFK ones. Perhaps codebreaking options that will enable pirates to steal items directly out of cargo holds, GSC’s, Moon mining stations, PI installations, or anything else that might be unguarded.

“Corrupt officials” would also be cool, they could appear in lowsec and NPC null stations for a limited amount of time and we could mission for them, as a reward we get a few CONCORD free ganks.

But as for “need to get more people into lowsec!” please do not do that. Everything there is a fight already it only gets more difficult with more people.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#307 - 2013-02-02 01:14:25 UTC
Bigger space. I want people to feel safe so I can scan them down when they are AFK and take their stuff :)

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#308 - 2013-02-02 02:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rellik B00n
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Rellik B00n wrote:


3. Low sec
Under populated. No unique reason to visit this area in terms of resources but FW is providing much needed life. FW working much better than first implementation but still requires additional iterations.


if I was to prioritise CCPs workload for the coming year based on system security my list would look like this:
1. null sec
2. low sec
3. high sec and worm holes.


low sec is sort of pointless - by default if you own null sec you can use your resources to take low sec so mentally you already own these areas....

to those of us living freely in our own area of the sandbox ask the following:

of a given request for change, who will benefit most?


Lowsec is not underpopulated! Too many of the refugiee’s from Delve moved into the southern regions; and the FW carnival rides are a mess. Do you spend any time in lowsec?

The only thing we need is more options for “interacting” with our fellow players, especially the unaware and AFK ones. Perhaps codebreaking options that will enable pirates to steal items directly out of cargo holds, GSC’s, Moon mining stations, PI installations, or anything else that might be unguarded.

“Corrupt officials” would also be cool, they could appear in lowsec and NPC null stations for a limited amount of time and we could mission for them, as a reward we get a few CONCORD free ganks.

But as for “need to get more people into lowsec!” please do not do that. Everything there is a fight already it only gets more difficult with more people.


Ok. Fair points.

Would u say then that the majority of low sec residents are happy with low ATM then?

Edit: hacking skill. Underused and undervalued. It could be so much more...
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#309 - 2013-02-02 02:29:27 UTC
Rellik B00n wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Rellik B00n wrote:


3. Low sec
Under populated. No unique reason to visit this area in terms of resources but FW is providing much needed life. FW working much better than first implementation but still requires additional iterations.


if I was to prioritise CCPs workload for the coming year based on system security my list would look like this:
1. null sec
2. low sec
3. high sec and worm holes.


low sec is sort of pointless - by default if you own null sec you can use your resources to take low sec so mentally you already own these areas....

to those of us living freely in our own area of the sandbox ask the following:

of a given request for change, who will benefit most?


Lowsec is not underpopulated! Too many of the refugiee’s from Delve moved into the southern regions; and the FW carnival rides are a mess. Do you spend any time in lowsec?

The only thing we need is more options for “interacting” with our fellow players, especially the unaware and AFK ones. Perhaps codebreaking options that will enable pirates to steal items directly out of cargo holds, GSC’s, Moon mining stations, PI installations, or anything else that might be unguarded.

“Corrupt officials” would also be cool, they could appear in lowsec and NPC null stations for a limited amount of time and we could mission for them, as a reward we get a few CONCORD free ganks.

But as for “need to get more people into lowsec!” please do not do that. Everything there is a fight already it only gets more difficult with more people.


Ok. Fair points.

Would u say then that the majority of low sec residents are happy with low ATM then?

Edit: hacking skill. Underused and undervalued. It could be so much more...

Yes yes he ould because its not broken the players are. When you enter the game you are supposed to go attack everything like you have rabies. You wont run out of isk at all. Dont worry about the stupid stuff high sec care bears are worried about. Just go gank something it is fun.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#310 - 2013-02-02 02:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Rellik B00n wrote:


Ok. Fair points.

Would u say then that the majority of low sec residents are happy with low ATM then?

Edit: hacking skill. Underused and undervalued. It could be so much more...


Yes, Low sec is the most fun however it also the worst ISK. I can live with that balance, and I think the same is true for most people here. its a bit crowded but I think that will thin out eventually; and there's always NPC null or wormholes if I get really sick of people.

Re hacking I would love to see another micro game developed around it. Like scanning but a bit more strategic: Perhaps you learn skills for different types of hacking and ICE programs, and you have to move through the network using the correct programs to get by certain safegaurds. Something with an renaissance cyberpunk feel would just kick ass.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#311 - 2013-02-02 02:35:34 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Yes yes he ould because its not broken the players are. When you enter the game you are supposed to go attack everything like you have rabies. You wont run out of isk at all. Dont worry about the stupid stuff high sec care bears are worried about. Just go gank something it is fun.


I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here Aza. But I don't think I am the type of player that you think I am. Also lowsec players are very conservative with ISK actually, it is too hard to come by. So attacking things like rabid dog is really not an option, at least for me.

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#312 - 2013-02-02 02:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Yes yes he ould because its not broken the players are. When you enter the game you are supposed to go attack everything like you have rabies. You wont run out of isk at all. Dont worry about the stupid stuff high sec care bears are worried about. Just go gank something it is fun.


I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here Aza. But I don't think I am the type of player that you think I am. Also lowsec players are very conservative with ISK actually, it is too hard to come by. So attacking things like rabid dog is really not an option, at least for me.



Look I know what I am talking about. The way to have fun in High/low/null is to go get some kills. Until you do that you are not playing EVE Online. It is a PVP game. Use nice cheap frigs if you have to just go get some. Cool
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2013-02-02 02:51:45 UTC
Hopefully the consequence is that we all decide to invade and destroy the true evil of EVE, highsec.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#314 - 2013-02-02 02:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Sura Sadiva
Corey Fumimasa wrote:


Also “My miner friends all moved to highsec because mining out here isn’t profitable.” And “We all have highsec industrial alts because its more profitable.” Maybe nullsec indi isn’t designed to be profitable


Null is far the more obscenely profittable area in the game.
Ratting, moons, missions, mining, exploration sites, anomalies, PI, options to upgrade systems everything is far more profittable than everywhere esle. And all this in perfect safety. Null sec corporation with the simple passive income can pay not only the sovreignity costs but also ship replacement (even capitals) for all their members, in this way they nullified one of the base EVE concepts: risk/consequences. PvP have no cost for them.

Null sec today (and this process started from Dominion) is the quintessence of perfect carebearing.

They're bored cause they dunno how to spend their ISK. This is why the risk of someone "tempted by the RMT sirens",

What they asking now is to have not only the monopoly of T2 materials (that they already have) but also the monopoly of T2 manifacturing. And all this for free, becuase "hey we're cool" or "becuase otherwise we crash Jita node and harrass CCP".
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#315 - 2013-02-02 03:00:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
La Nariz wrote:
Hopefully the consequence is that we all decide to invade and destroy the true evil of EVE, highsec.

If you think CONCORD is the best highsec can defend itself with have defending them while they are passive about it, you're wrong.

CCP.

Nerf ganking, Nerf bumping, buff freighters and miners. More, harder

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#316 - 2013-02-02 03:04:45 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Hopefully the consequence is that we all decide to invade and destroy the true evil of EVE, highsec.

If you think CONCORD is the best highsec can defend itself with have defending them while they are passive about it, you're wrong.

CCP.

Nerf ganking, Nerf bumping, buff freighters and miners. More, harder


We have DBRB the terror of structures, we can send him to Iceland and he will regal CCP with tales of his glorious structure shots. They in turn will remove CONCORD and make stations destructible in hopes that he will race away to lead a fleet to shoot structures he has never shot before.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#317 - 2013-02-02 03:06:09 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:

Null is far the more obscenely profittable area in the game.
Ratting, moons, missions, mining, exploration sites, anomalies, PI, options to upgrade systems everything is far more profittable than everywhere esle. And all this in perfect safety. Null sec corporation with the simple passive income can pay not only the sovreignity costs but also ship replacement (even capitals) for all their members, in this way they nullified one of the base EVE concepts: risk/consequences. PvP have no cost for them.

Null sec today (and this process started from Dominion) is the quintessence of perfect carebearing.

They're bored cause they dunno how to spend their ISK. This is why the risk of someone "tempted by the RMT sirens",

What they asking now is to have not only the monopoly of T2 materials (that they already have) but also the monopoly of T2 manifacturing. And all this for free, becuase "hey we're cool" or "becuase otherwise we crash Jita node and harrass CCP".

Every sentence and statement in your post is objectively incorrect.
Please reread this post before resuming posting thanks.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#318 - 2013-02-02 03:58:01 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Every sentence and statement in your post is objectively incorrect.
Please reread this post before resuming posting thanks.


I wasn't referring to you (sorry if sounded like that) , I have read your posts, I largely agree with your analysis as well as your "historical reconstruction" is correct. I was referring to the lobby's demands in general.

Where I disagree is the solution to this. The idea of lobbies pushing for prioritizing their own needs and one-sided reiterations. Dominion was a direct product of CCP listening to a specific lobby, and we see the results.

When CCP say the devlopment model they want to follow is the same of Apocryphya they're right. Apocrypha was directly or indirectly an improvement for a large part of EVE:

- New space type and opportunities for solo explorers and small groups willing to colonizate settle an "home"
- Exploration revamp
- A new PvE endgame
- New PvP opportunities
- A new ship generation to fit the needs and role required
- A new research/industrial layer

And so on.

This affected and gave new flexibles options to a large part of players, not only a small minority.

As well as I disagree witht he idea of null sec (or anything else) as global EVE endgame. This is a WoW style mindset too.

This is what I mean when I say that anything have to be trasversal and cannot be a mere benefits for a minority group. When in the last CSM minute we read a CCP Dev (sorry I don't remember who was now) replying to the CSM "ok this is important for you and what you want but I've to think to what the whole playerbase want and what is best for the game" they say this, and they're right.

So I think any suggestion or idea or request have to be trasversal and care for the several aspect of EvE gameplay, not only for what a specific lobby wants. Sure, one can and say "have to be so cause I'm the more cool players" but this is a teen-agers approach to gaming when we have to discuss implementations (not your case, but many of your same lobby - and sorry for the generalization but I explained why happens - do so).
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#319 - 2013-02-02 04:05:50 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
This is what I mean when I say that anything have to be trasversal and cannot be a mere benefits for a minority group. When in the last CSM minute we read a CCP Dev (sorry I don't remember who was now) replying to the CSM "ok this is important for you and what you want but I've to think to what the whole playerbase want and what is best for the game" they say this, and they're right.

So I think any suggestion or idea or request have to be trasversal and care for the several aspect of EvE gameplay, not only for what a specific lobby wants. Sure, one can and say "have to be so cause I'm the more cool players" but this is a teen-agers approach to gaming when we have to discuss implementations (not your case, but many of your same lobby - and sorry for the generalization but I explained why happens - do so).

POSes and POS mechanics only affect a small portion of players.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#320 - 2013-02-02 04:18:46 UTC
Its funny how CCP has made null into king of the hill with northern tech, yet made managing that system almost not worth the headache. I'm starting to think CCP is just a giant troll.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden