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Consequences of A Bored Null
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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2013-02-01 09:09:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it.

exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots".

Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people.


It was more like like 60% bots. They were very easy to spot as they would continue mining in a pod or go grab another barge we would then pop. The tears came from the botting websites which I must say were glorious.

even with such easy spotting you managed to kill 40% of real players?
such a great job! I guess everyone will agree to any medical operation with such conditions.... Shocked

you really don't see anything wrong here?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#262 - 2013-02-01 10:53:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Contact Helicity Boson and make it happen then.


Helicity's playing GW2 (too) and twitted this:

@enterprise_psi @CCPGames yeah well, I'm a bit tired of doing their job for them at the expensive of my free time, if you know what i mean

That does not bode well... Ugh

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#263 - 2013-02-01 11:28:02 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Contact Helicity Boson and make it happen then.


Helicity's playing GW2 (too) and twitted this:

@enterprise_psi @CCPGames yeah well, I'm a bit tired of doing their job for them at the expensive of my free time, if you know what i mean

That does not bode well... Ugh


OK well make it happen by yourself then.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#264 - 2013-02-01 12:21:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Contact Helicity Boson and make it happen then.


Helicity's playing GW2 (too) and twitted this:

@enterprise_psi @CCPGames yeah well, I'm a bit tired of doing their job for them at the expensive of my free time, if you know what i mean

That does not bode well... Ugh


OK well make it happen by yourself then.


Unlikely, for several reasons:

1) I have to move overseas (on an island far away P) my whole home starting Feb 15-20. I won't even have internet for who knows how long.

2) I don't have the connections with those able to execute it, much less the RL time to follow the event.

3) I could sponsor it alone but in that case I would end up spending more than I earn. I am not doing it for the giggles, even if I fully understand the goodness of creating content bringing in the giggles.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#265 - 2013-02-01 13:12:00 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Taking Horus into your alliance, or an alliance leader that engages in RMT (Silent Dodger of RA) is a problem that tends to correct itself.


It become relevant when this people use - how did you define yourself? - "the most relevant player driven organization in an MMO" - for their RL business. And hsould be relevant for you guys in the first place, cause you and your gameplay are the main victims of this.

And while I agree with you that this shouldn't be an argument in a topic related to industry in null sec. Problem is when you start to push as a organized lobby (in some case threating of harrassment and demanding to dictate everyone's gameplay to the whole community and to CCP as well) have to expect people to see and adress everything related to this lobby.

Even the best suggestions will be clouded by considerations like "oh wait, these are those people who had their alliance leader banned for RTM" "this is that group caught for that massive exploit abuse" and so on. You can ignore the opinions and feeling the rest of EVE community have toward you, but it's not wise becauses: CCP cannot ignore it.

Are wrong generalization, sure. But generalizatiopn happens cause you act as a fancy lobby.

Go figure when the suggestions look wrong. Becuase someone should explain how and why the request "make (also) the the T2 manifacturing bettetr in respect of the rest of EVE" is something that could improve/enhance for anyone except for the minority lobby pushing for it.

Apocrypya expansion provided new game opportunities and options for a large part of EVE players, was trasversal. Was the most successful EVE expansion and CCP statetd clearly that's the development model they're following. So keep lobbying for Dominion 2 is stupid.

If one want a specific need to be satisfated then is more intelligent trying to integrate it with a more general and trasversal implementations.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#266 - 2013-02-01 13:49:06 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it.

exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots".

Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people.

The only person you can blame is yourself. You don't fit to prevent the gank and then mine AFK.

nice to see NPC logic from "elite of Eve" Lol

"i only do what i'm programmed to do. i made to warp, lock and shoot. It's only your fault if my job succeded".

Well. Nothing new here. i always say "standard suicide-ganker is just improved version of NPC" Cool

I don't pvp.

You really suffered through reading the posts in this thread huh?

I've been pretty clear about being a dedicated industrialist.

Keep on winning bot.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#267 - 2013-02-01 13:51:34 UTC
Stereotyping by the privileged class

Not a big surprise

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#268 - 2013-02-01 13:55:10 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

I don't pvp.



Neither do I most nights, i mostly PvSSARBW (Player vs Serps, Sanshas, Angels, Rogue Drone, Blood Raiders or Whoever) lol.

And it doesn't matter to them at all. ANY change to their advantages (unfair or not) is wrong and evil, so YOU must be wrong and evil and a PvPr who "just hates the way I play the game".

It has to be "personal", because there is no way you could possibly disagree with anything someone elses wants, because everyone is the same and wants the same things I do P
Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#269 - 2013-02-01 14:15:50 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it.

exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots".

Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people.

The only person you can blame is yourself. You don't fit to prevent the gank and then mine AFK.

nice to see NPC logic from "elite of Eve" Lol

"i only do what i'm programmed to do. i made to warp, lock and shoot. It's only your fault if my job succeded".

Well. Nothing new here. i always say "standard suicide-ganker is just improved version of NPC" Cool

I don't pvp.

You really suffered through reading the posts in this thread huh?

I've been pretty clear about being a dedicated industrialist.

Keep on winning bot.


From what I understood from what you say, you PvP quite a lot, You are a player, and you compete with the other players who sell things in VFK, doesn't competition between players count as PvP?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#270 - 2013-02-01 14:27:58 UTC
Thutmose I wrote:


From what I understood from what you say, you PvP quite a lot, You are a player, and you compete with the other players who sell things in VFK, doesn't competition between players count as PvP?

I don't subscribe to that.

Yes, it's competition.
Yes, it's other people I'm competing with.

I don't really want to get into this arguement though, it's silly.

Let's just say that when I say "PvP" I'm talking entirely about interfering with another person, in space. Whether that be bumping, ganking, or legalling exploding them.

Calling what I do "PvP", to me, is the equivilent of a guy calling himself a proffesional fighter, when he's an unranked amatuer.
Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#271 - 2013-02-01 14:39:56 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Thutmose I wrote:


From what I understood from what you say, you PvP quite a lot, You are a player, and you compete with the other players who sell things in VFK, doesn't competition between players count as PvP?

I don't subscribe to that.

Yes, it's competition.
Yes, it's other people I'm competing with.

I don't really want to get into this arguement though, it's silly.

Let's just say that when I say "PvP" I'm talking entirely about interfering with another person, in space. Whether that be bumping, ganking, or legalling exploding them.

Calling what I do "PvP", to me, is the equivilent of a guy calling himself a proffesional fighter, when he's an unranked amatuer.


I was mainly going based on the convention where playing the market is refered to as "market PvP", I agree there is a distinction between combat/interference PvP and market PvP.

It is similar to how one could say that a fraction of gankers are actually miners. They are mining for Tears.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#272 - 2013-02-01 15:13:49 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Thutmose I wrote:


From what I understood from what you say, you PvP quite a lot, You are a player, and you compete with the other players who sell things in VFK, doesn't competition between players count as PvP?

I don't subscribe to that.

Yes, it's competition.
Yes, it's other people I'm competing with.

I don't really want to get into this arguement though, it's silly.

Let's just say that when I say "PvP" I'm talking entirely about interfering with another person, in space. Whether that be bumping, ganking, or legalling exploding them.

Calling what I do "PvP", to me, is the equivilent of a guy calling himself a proffesional fighter, when he's an unranked amatuer.


What you do is PvP in the most literal sense. Call it "market PvP" vs "Combat PvP" if it helps, but trying to deny that the fighting that happens through the market interface is PvP is nonsensical, regardless of how it "feels".

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#273 - 2013-02-01 15:31:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Being a goon doesn't put more content in our systems, nor does it make it better to produce T2 goods in null sec.

What a shock.
The largest group of null players are constantly on the forums, pointing out the same things over and over. Almost like you've got this huge cross segement of players who have played in more than just a single are of EVE, to know what they're talking about.

Whoda thunk it, right?


In this case I believe It's less about what You said right now but more about the changes some of Your fellow goonies proposed in the past while at the same time giving the impression that they actually belived what they said. :)

Some of those changes proposed were, in short, attrociously bad to say the least and others simply would've put the goons in a position were they would've been the only ones with any noteworthy capacity for T2 production.

While that might not be Your own agenda it's those posts that will be seen as Your agenda since You belong to the same alliance.

Sad but true. Sad

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Michael Nezerol
Planetary Bombardment Association
#274 - 2013-02-01 15:43:36 UTC
How about the following?

- Reduction in production slots in High Sec (not as steep as from 20 to 10, but more like to 15 or so)
- The 'ABC' minerals can only be found in 0-sec, and upon entering high sec an 50-100% 'fee' gets charged by C-Sec (what reason they'll use, dunno yet. Have to think that one up). Not only this will make production within 0-sec more viable (because the production costs within high sec will rise), also smuggling will get more interesting again.
- Bump up of the production costs and times in high sec (times x4, costs x2).

- POS'es are easier to get destroyed depending on how much POSes the alliance/corp has. The more POSes, the easier to destroy.
- Limiting of jumpbridges and the like.

This to make 0-sec more viable as a production/mining/trading center, while also making it easier for 'new' alliances to jump into 0-sec. (Because if you're honest, you have to admit 0-sec has become such a stalemate because of the massive alliances/NAPs)
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#275 - 2013-02-01 15:48:12 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Rellik B00n wrote:
so perhaps like this:

your personal 4 point plan (quarters) for what CCP should be working on in 2013.

im tired atm so i dont want to waste mine but maybe a few bullet points could help any influential people that drop by the thread Smile

Give high sec coroporations the ability to control stations in all .7-.5 systems so that they can set tax and manufacturing rates, as well as the focus of the station.

Player corporation should control the flow of T2 products, and be able to tax NPC corp members.


I even have a post in the featrues and ideas forums about focusing on high sec industrial corporations.

I don't CCP to "nerf" high sec, I want them to put high sec in the hands of the people who leave the NPC corps.


from the OP:

Rellik B00n wrote:


to those of us living freely in our own area of the sandbox ask the following:

of a given request for change, who will benefit most?


I read your original post in F&I about this change over in the .7 - .5 systems. I cannot help but zero in on this one point because I have to wonder: who does benefit from this change?

We give all those stations to player corps, what then? Null sec declares war on all of them? Net result: null sec take control of all these stations. This goes back to the OP and its suggestion of hidden agendas (even if it is a bit :tinfoil:) - in the end .7 - .5 just become part of the blue donut and the space in the middle of the donut gets much smaller.

Or am I wrong?
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#276 - 2013-02-01 15:52:11 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it.

exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots".

Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people.


It was more like like 60% bots. They were very easy to spot as they would continue mining in a pod or go grab another barge we would then pop. The tears came from the botting websites which I must say were glorious.

even with such easy spotting you managed to kill 40% of real players?
such a great job! I guess everyone will agree to any medical operation with such conditions.... Shocked

you really don't see anything wrong here?

No. The plan was to make money, the destruction of hundreds of bots was just a very welcome side effect.
Michael Nezerol
Planetary Bombardment Association
#277 - 2013-02-01 15:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Nezerol
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Rellik B00n wrote:
so perhaps like this:

your personal 4 point plan (quarters) for what CCP should be working on in 2013.

im tired atm so i dont want to waste mine but maybe a few bullet points could help any influential people that drop by the thread Smile

Give high sec coroporations the ability to control stations in all .7-.5 systems so that they can set tax and manufacturing rates, as well as the focus of the station.

Player corporation should control the flow of T2 products, and be able to tax NPC corp members.


I even have a post in the featrues and ideas forums about focusing on high sec industrial corporations.

I don't CCP to "nerf" high sec, I want them to put high sec in the hands of the people who leave the NPC corps.


And that latter (I bolded it) is exactly how it will work out... while EVE is (especially outside highsec) an PvP game, there also should still be room for casuals - and in case highsec gets handed over to the 0-sec alliances, chances are VERY high that as a casual you won't get 'into the game' anymore.
I speak from experience with other games where control of 'casual' areas got handed over to large alliances. Well, it killed those games in the end.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2013-02-01 15:55:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We did do something about it but the high sec bears put an end to it.

exactly "you did do something...". killed like 10% of botters and 90% of people while "fighting bots".

Don't you think anyone forgot about those "tears" everyone were crying about? Bots don't produce it. SO once you said "tears" you show - you fight real people.


It was more like like 60% bots. They were very easy to spot as they would continue mining in a pod or go grab another barge we would then pop. The tears came from the botting websites which I must say were glorious.

even with such easy spotting you managed to kill 40% of real players?
such a great job! I guess everyone will agree to any medical operation with such conditions.... Shocked

you really don't see anything wrong here?

No. The plan was to make money, the destruction of hundreds of bots was just a very welcome side effect.

and here we have reasons why those legendary "high sec bears" from your first post put an end to it.

And you know: there is nothing wrong with stopping people from making money from you. Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Michael Nezerol
Planetary Bombardment Association
#279 - 2013-02-01 15:57:56 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
and here we have reasons why those legendary "high sec bears" from your first post put an end to it.

And you know: there is nothing wrong with stopping people from making money from you. Cool


*sighs* Dumb statement... I'm not a 0-seccer, but I had facepalm about that..
Ginger Barbarella
#280 - 2013-02-01 16:32:08 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


Now that one has been provided, may I assume that the evidence hasn't changed your opinion one tiny iota?


I'm sure you can understand my position that a pie graph is NOT data, and can be modified easier than climate change models. Please provide a link to the data as collected by CCP; pie graphs and unqualified statements at the drunk fest that is Eve Fan Fest aren't the data points that I requested. Thanks.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac