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[MAJTH] Do you know what I keep hearing?

Author
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#1 - 2011-10-10 21:09:04 UTC
I keep hearing that capsuleers will never do anything good for creation. I keep hearing that we are animals who are driven solely by greed, by lust, by the will to destruction. I keep hearing that Amarrian capsuleers, especially, are driven by these things.

I do not believe this for a second. I have opened the Majest Theological Institute to prove them wrong.

If you are a believer in the faith, and you feel the same calling that I do to making creation a better place, we have just opened our doors.

Our mission is as follows:

1) Teach, and debate a capsuleer-centric theology based on the scripture, service to God and the Emperess.

2) To go out into creation and spread the word of God in a respectful, helpful way.

3) To follow the dictates laid out for us by the Prophet St. Juria, when she called on the Amarr to be worthy, to make creation a thing to be proud of.

I will use this thread to post updates on MAJTH and our activities.

Fly safe, Summit.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#2 - 2011-10-10 21:24:58 UTC
I wish you best continuation.
Edaine Numenor
Numenor Benevolent Holdings
#3 - 2011-10-11 01:26:02 UTC
Sir,
I appreciate you indulging my questions tonight on the Summit. If non-Amarrians use decorum and respect, are we allowed to pose questions on this thread on topics pertaining to Amarrian theology?

Liberating slaves wherever, whenever, and however I can.

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#4 - 2011-10-11 01:29:56 UTC
Edaine Numenor wrote:
Sir,
I appreciate you indulging my questions tonight on the Summit. If non-Amarrians use decorum and respect, are we allowed to pose questions on this thread on topics pertaining to Amarrian theology?


Of course. I will do what I can to offer an answer.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-11 02:03:27 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I keep hearing that capsuleers will never do anything good for creation. I keep hearing that we are animals who are driven solely by greed, by lust, by the will to destruction. I keep hearing that Amarrian capsuleers, especially, are driven by these things.

I do not believe this for a second. I have opened the Majest Theological Institute to prove them wrong.


I wish you the best of luck. To convince me of the point you're trying to, you will surely need it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-11 03:42:26 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I keep hearing that capsuleers will never do anything good for creation. I keep hearing that we are animals who are driven solely by greed, by lust, by the will to destruction. I keep hearing that Amarrian capsuleers, especially, are driven by these things.

I do not believe this for a second. I have opened the Majest Theological Institute to prove them wrong.


I wish you the best of luck. To convince me of the point you're trying to, you will surely need it.

Happily, he does not require nor would he likely benefit from the approval of someone so quick to criticize others.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#7 - 2011-10-11 11:24:24 UTC
I think we need to keep this on topic. Thank you Andreus and Lyris for your support, grudging though it might be in cases.

On the inadequacy of language

Last night I had a fascinating discussion with a Caldari pilot who wished to understand the purpose of this venture. After working through the inevitable questions about profit and whether or not I was altruistic in my aims, we came to the topic of God and my belief therein.

Of course, here, the topic broke down. I did not have the words to properly explain to this pilot why I had faith, and why to my mind it was entirely logical to have faith. Of course she would believe me to be ruled by emotion and illogical thinking! I am sure Mr. Ixiris would say the same thing.

Those in the cluster who do not have faith have trouble understanding us and what exactly it means when an Amarrian pilot says that we 'believe in God'; Intellectually, they understand that we believe in some sort of supreme being, many of them may have even read portions of the scripture and so, intellectually, they may have an idea of what we believe God to be like.

This is still not understanding, and this is our challenge as proponents and spreaders of the faith.

There is something else to the belief in God, something that goes beyond lowly intellectual understanding. Trying to explain your faith using the inadequate terms afforded to us by language and translators is trying to explain your faith through grunts, whistles and hand gestures when you need poetry to properly convey the concept.

In the past, this issue was solved with slavery. Slavery as a method to reclaiming is no longer possible, and I shall go into why this is (for my more conservative Amarrian brothers and sisters) and what the benefits it was meant to convey other than cheap labour (for my non-Amarrian readers) at another time.

It is our duty, in the Majesty Theological Institute, to find a new way of expressing the necessary poetry.

Students who wish to study further on this should look closely to the Book of Speaker Lamia, which is one of several scriptural texts with a large portion of its teachings presented in mathematical formula.

Language, as a barrier, must be overcome when dealing with people who do not yet share your faith. Patience is the primary virtue that should be adopted here.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2011-10-11 16:06:03 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

In the past, this issue was solved with slavery. Slavery as a method to reclaiming is no longer possible, and I shall go into why this is (for my more conservative Amarrian brothers and sisters) and what the benefits it was meant to convey other than cheap labour (for my non-Amarrian readers) at another time.


You should take care when writing your explanation. We wouldn't want anyone to conclude that you're disloyal.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#9 - 2011-10-11 16:23:11 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

In the past, this issue was solved with slavery. Slavery as a method to reclaiming is no longer possible, and I shall go into why this is (for my more conservative Amarrian brothers and sisters) and what the benefits it was meant to convey other than cheap labour (for my non-Amarrian readers) at another time.


You should take care when writing your explanation. We wouldn't want anyone to conclude that you're disloyal.


I thought that was your main job these days.


Good luck with your endeavor Tiberious

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Edaine Numenor
Numenor Benevolent Holdings
#10 - 2011-10-11 16:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Edaine Numenor
You speak of the issue of the "ineffable" in theology. How do Amarrian theologians speak "about" ineffable concepts within the faith? Or, in other words, how do we use words to talk about that which transcends words?

I wish great success in this endeavor. I see already, there is that ever present subtle threat of being called "disloyal" if you cross someone else's lines of definition. I encourage you to be brave in your theology.

Respectfully,
Edaine

Liberating slaves wherever, whenever, and however I can.

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#11 - 2011-10-11 17:18:43 UTC
Brother Merdaneth, I have no need to be careful, as I am not disloyal. Should anyone come to that conclusion I will be sorely vexxed!

Captain Numenor, as I said last night, different authors have dealt with these concepts in different ways. Some have chosen to forgo language entirely. Others use metaphorical concepts to explain something parallel, and some have chosen to put the truths they wish to explain in the form of the writing rather than in the words themselves.

Still others have simply decided not to care, and just assume that the reader will be able to follow along.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2011-10-11 17:44:25 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Brother Merdaneth, I have no need to be careful, as I am not disloyal. Should anyone come to that conclusion I will be sorely vexxed!



I shall await your thoughts on the matter then.

In the meantime, you may want to get your sight tested.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#13 - 2011-10-11 18:12:45 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:

I shall await your thoughts on the matter then.

In the meantime, you may want to get your sight tested.


My apologies, Brother Blake. Posting while distracted.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#14 - 2011-10-12 17:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberious Thessalonia
Did you know that there is apparently a time limit on how long you can have this interface open and still successfully post something? I didn't, until now. Expect a post on Hardship when I get a chance to craft it.

Edit: Again.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#15 - 2011-10-12 18:48:47 UTC
On Hardship

Those who have read and understood Scripture will know of the importance the Amarr place on Hardship. Those who have read scripture but not understood it will only know of the extant place for suffering.

Suffering makes us stronger. As a woman who taught me much was fond of saying, 'Endure; in enduring, grow strong'. The True Amarr suffered when we wandered the deserts of Athra for millenia. Suffering serves as the scourge, violently ripping away weakness and sin.

However, it is not all there is. If all there was was suffering, and if only suffering were part of God's plan for us, humanity would have never developed as a species to the point where we are the only life-form that has become capable of surviving the death of our star and planet, whatever those may be. We would not be farming, let alone plying our trade amongst the stars.

No, it is more fair to say that God wants us to suffer hardship, not suffering. Hardship implies a challenge, a test. Something we can overcome. Hardship is exercise. Suffering is just the application of the principle of 'That which does not kill us only makes us stronger'.

This is why MAJTH, the other day, shipped some Wheat into the Republic through Matari channels, when we learned that certain areas of the republic are suffering through a famine. We have provided those areas with some temporary relief of their suffering, so that they can work towards solving the ultimate causes of their hunter themselves.

It is my belief that men with empty bellies will not spend time contemplating God, unless that hunger is the result of a direct and concious choice.

Related, MAJTH is also sponsering the 'Majesty Theological Institute endowment for theoretical and practical sciences'. 5 million ISK has been converted to baseliner currency and set aside as a scholarship for Amarrian doctoral students. Each year, for five years, fifty promising up-and-coming scientists will be awarded the equivalent of 20,000 ISK to fund their work in theoretical and practical science development in the fields of physics, chemistry, and biology.

If these numbers sound low to you, then you should begin to understand the massive wealth held by capsuleers. 5 million ISK, an hours work for even a modest capsuleer, can fund scientific advancement at an incredible rate.

And there are those who would have you believe that all you can do is blow things up.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2011-10-12 18:53:05 UTC
Speaking of the explanation of the Amarrian Faith, Mr Thessalonia, have you ever considered that you are not able to explain it not because of the flaws of the language itself, but more due to an inability to explain something complex ? Please do not feel offended by my words for that it is not my intention to do so. There are a lot of things in the universe that we feel, or use, without totally understanding them, or being able to explain them correctly or accurately. Especially, as you say, with language, which is an indirect communication tool, flawed by several restrictive interfaces (words and language itself, then personnal interpretations and feelings).

But consider the Voluval for example. Nobody seem to totally understand how it works, and are unable to explain it accurately. It is similar in essence, and rooted in a lack of understanding, or, more accurately said, a lack of consciousness. As we progress everyday on the road of knowledge though, you might agree that someday we will be able to perfectly explain faith in better terms.

Rodj Blake wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Brother Merdaneth, I have no need to be careful, as I am not disloyal. Should anyone come to that conclusion I will be sorely vexxed!



In the meantime, you may want to get your sight tested.


Out of curiosity, by whom, under which authority ?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#17 - 2011-10-12 19:08:06 UTC
Brother Blake was talking about the fact that I managed to mistake him for Merdaneth, Lyn.

As to the rest of your post, that is possible. I am inadequate to the task set before me, as we all are. Still, have to give it a shot, right?

However, I believe that the issue is one of not having the correct tools with your average layperson not of the faith. I'll get into this further in a future posting, specifically the one where I talk about slavery and what it got right, and where it goes horrifically wrong.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2011-10-12 20:27:26 UTC
Oh I see, my apologies...

Of course you have to try. Everyone has to try.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#19 - 2011-10-12 22:47:12 UTC
May I ask what your stance is on those who do not wish to believe in your God and your Faith?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#20 - 2011-10-12 23:48:04 UTC
I believe that I should still try to convince you, but if you won't have it... well, I take a longer view on things than most. Don't hurt the empire unless you're punching back, and don't do deliberate harm to creation, and theres not a lot of harm in you sitting there as you will.
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