These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

GM Response On Bumping

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#401 - 2014-08-30 02:22:41 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Just as this thread is dead for a few weeks someone revives it lol


I like how you don't even have to go a page to find a response to the last necro


... you know what I mean.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#402 - 2014-08-31 01:42:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
**** like bumping orcas for 15-30 minutes straight for multiple waves of gank characters is why this game is dying.



The game isn't dying(that's just a fallacy that dishonest people use to campaign for bad change), and those people should bring web alts and use scouts.

Hint, if your scout sees two Machariels on a gate, don't jump through it.


Or just design the game so that CONCORD properly responds to criminal activity, which includes unlawful entrapment.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#403 - 2014-08-31 20:08:44 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
**** like bumping orcas for 15-30 minutes straight for multiple waves of gank characters is why this game is dying.



The game isn't dying(that's just a fallacy that dishonest people use to campaign for bad change), and those people should bring web alts and use scouts.

Hint, if your scout sees two Machariels on a gate, don't jump through it.


Or just design the game so that CONCORD properly responds to criminal activity, which includes unlawful entrapment.


So make it where bumping someone gets you CONCORD'ed... That would make Jita so much fun!
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#404 - 2014-08-31 20:11:09 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
**** like bumping orcas for 15-30 minutes straight for multiple waves of gank characters is why this game is dying.



Confirmed Eve is dying post #734974
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#405 - 2014-08-31 22:33:07 UTC
No, just make it so that once CONCORD arrives on scene the gank victim gets 60 seconds of invulnerability from CONCORD.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#406 - 2014-09-01 00:06:48 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
No, just make it so that once CONCORD arrives on scene the gank victim gets 60 seconds of invulnerability from CONCORD.


1) Crossposting is bad. Crossposting in a necroed thread is worse.

2) You mean incorporeality, since invulnerable things can still get bumped.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#407 - 2014-09-01 00:56:34 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
No, just make it so that once CONCORD arrives on scene the gank victim gets 60 seconds of invulnerability from CONCORD.


1) Crossposting is bad. Crossposting in a necroed thread is worse.

2) You mean incorporeality, since invulnerable things can still get bumped.


The posting to each thread was appropriate to the topic therein. I'm not concerned with the name, the key is that the gank victim be able to escape before the next wave of gankers comes.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#408 - 2014-09-01 00:59:20 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
The posting to each thread was appropriate to the topic therein. I'm not concerned with the name, the key is that the gank victim be able to escape before the next wave of gankers comes.


That is currently the case.

What you're asking for is that they be automagically entitled to escape, which is different and relies on your false supposition that CONCORD is a police force tasked with enforcing a system of laws that is in any way similar to the extant systems in the real world.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#409 - 2014-09-01 01:03:09 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
The posting to each thread was appropriate to the topic therein. I'm not concerned with the name, the key is that the gank victim be able to escape before the next wave of gankers comes.


That is currently the case.

What you're asking for is that they be automagically entitled to escape, which is different and relies on your false supposition that CONCORD is a police force tasked with enforcing a system of laws that is in any way similar to the extant systems in the real world.


No it isn't....bumping can make it impossible for a freighter to escape. That CONCORD would sit by and allow that is nothing short of absurd.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#410 - 2014-09-01 01:18:22 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
The posting to each thread was appropriate to the topic therein. I'm not concerned with the name, the key is that the gank victim be able to escape before the next wave of gankers comes.


That is currently the case.

What you're asking for is that they be automagically entitled to escape, which is different and relies on your false supposition that CONCORD is a police force tasked with enforcing a system of laws that is in any way similar to the extant systems in the real world.


No it isn't....bumping can make it impossible for a freighter to escape. That CONCORD would sit by and allow that is nothing short of absurd.


Yes, if the bumper does his job perfectly, and the freighter pilot does nothing, the freighter will not escape. Roll

CONCORD's only purpose related to this is to punish Criminal Actions in HS. Bumping is not a Criminal Action, regardless of what space it occurs in, so why should CONCORD care?

Once again, you are confusing CONCORD with an RL Police Force and New Edens laws with the laws in your jurisdiction.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#411 - 2014-09-01 01:37:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
The posting to each thread was appropriate to the topic therein. I'm not concerned with the name, the key is that the gank victim be able to escape before the next wave of gankers comes.


That is currently the case.

What you're asking for is that they be automagically entitled to escape, which is different and relies on your false supposition that CONCORD is a police force tasked with enforcing a system of laws that is in any way similar to the extant systems in the real world.


No it isn't....bumping can make it impossible for a freighter to escape. That CONCORD would sit by and allow that is nothing short of absurd.


Yes, if the bumper does his job perfectly, and the freighter pilot does nothing, the freighter will not escape. Roll

CONCORD's only purpose related to this is to punish Criminal Actions in HS. Bumping is not a Criminal Action, regardless of what space it occurs in, so why should CONCORD care?

Once again, you are confusing CONCORD with an RL Police Force and New Edens laws with the laws in your jurisdiction.


No, my point was that if BOTH SIDES act optimally the freighter still cannot escape. And the point is that whatever the function of CONCORD there is no conceivable way that it would simply sit there and let the freighter be pinned down and then killed.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#412 - 2014-09-01 01:44:47 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Veers Belvar wrote:
No, my point was that if BOTH SIDES act optimally the freighter still cannot escape.


Wrong.

Quote:
And the point is that whatever the function of CONCORD there is no conceivable way that it would simply sit there and let the freighter be pinned down and then killed.


That would be true, if and only If either CONCORD had an investigative role like RL Police do, or bumping were a Criminal Action in EVE. Neither of those are true.

Again, CONCORD's role is not and never has been to protect the victim. CONCORD's role is solely to punish any Criminal Actions in HS.

The reason we're going round and round is because we both have different assumptions about CONCORD's role in EVE. My assumptions are based off of current game mechanics and various statements made by CCP employees (Devs and GMs). How did you come up with your assumptions?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#413 - 2014-09-01 04:07:55 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
No, my point was that if BOTH SIDES act optimally the freighter still cannot escape.


Wrong.

And I contend that I'm right. I think it's impossible to prove either way without CCP input.

Quote:
And the point is that whatever the function of CONCORD there is no conceivable way that it would simply sit there and let the freighter be pinned down and then killed.


That would be true, if and only If either CONCORD had an investigative role like RL Police do, or bumping were a Criminal Action in EVE. Neither of those are true.

Again, CONCORD's role is not and never has been to protect the victim. CONCORD's role is solely to punish any Criminal Actions in HS.

The reason we're going round and round is because we both have different assumptions about CONCORD's role in EVE. My assumptions are based off of current game mechanics and various statements made by CCP employees (Devs and GMs). How did you come up with your assumptions?


I quoted CCP Falcon, who directly analogized CONCORD to a law enforcement agency. I pointed out the absurdity of the current situation, and I proposed a workable solution. But again, I'm not really look to convince the gankers on this thread of my ideas, it is much more for the benefit of CCP. As I've quoted before "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#414 - 2014-09-01 04:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Veers Belvar wrote:
I quoted CCP Falcon, who directly analogized CONCORD to a law enforcement agency. I pointed out the absurdity of the current situation, and I proposed a workable solution. But again, I'm not really look to convince the gankers on this thread of my ideas, it is much more for the benefit of CCP. As I've quoted before "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."


CCP Falcon wrote:
CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.


"Like" a law enforcement agency, not "the same as"
"Reactive and punitive" not "proactive"

Helping someone in between ganking runs is *proactive*

And again, it's only absurd if you don't recognize that New Eden has different laws than the jurisdictions you are familiar with.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#415 - 2014-09-01 04:12:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I quoted CCP Falcon, who directly analogized CONCORD to a law enforcement agency. I pointed out the absurdity of the current situation, and I proposed a workable solution. But again, I'm not really look to convince the gankers on this thread of my ideas, it is much more for the benefit of CCP. As I've quoted before "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."


CCP Falcon wrote:
CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.


"Like" a law enforcement agency, not "the same as"
"Reactive and punitive" not "proactive"

Helping someone in between ganking runs is *proactive*


Intervening when bumping is used as a form of false imprisonment between ganks is "reactive" not "proactive"
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#416 - 2014-09-01 04:15:19 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Intervening when bumping is used as a form of false imprisonment between ganks is "reactive" not "proactive"


Intervening in something that isn't a crime tends to, itself, be a crime.

Bumping is not and has never been a criminal action in New Eden, regardless of circumstance.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#417 - 2014-09-01 04:18:09 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Intervening when bumping is used as a form of false imprisonment between ganks is "reactive" not "proactive"


Intervening in something that isn't a crime tends to, itself, be a crime.

Bumping is not and has never been a criminal action in New Eden, regardless of circumstance.


Thank you for pointing out that bumping is not currently a crime in New Eden, I'm glad you cleared that point. If you have been paying any attention, my point was not discuss what IS a crime, but rather what SHOULD be a crime. And when bumping is used to effect false imprisonment on a freighter between waves of ganks, that clearly SHOULD be a crime.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#418 - 2014-09-01 05:48:44 UTC
Lol bumping a criminal offense? Dude, the jita 4-4 undock would be a constant massacre. You do realize that what you are asking for would in actuality make the game vastly more dangerous than it is now, right?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#419 - 2014-09-01 05:54:48 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Lol bumping a criminal offense? Dude, the jita 4-4 undock would be a constant massacre. You do realize that what you are asking for would in actuality make the game vastly more dangerous than it is now, right?


Did you read what I suggested? Did I say "hey, let's have CONCORD come and massacre every bumper, that sure would make them game better!"? Or did I instead suggest that gank victims get 60 seconds of being able to warp off without impediment by bumping, in essence CONCORD escorting them from the scene of the crime. Or perhaps this is what you referred to in making the game "vastly more dangerous." Please explain further.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#420 - 2014-09-01 13:57:31 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Lol bumping a criminal offense? Dude, the jita 4-4 undock would be a constant massacre. You do realize that what you are asking for would in actuality make the game vastly more dangerous than it is now, right?


Did you read what I suggested? Did I say "hey, let's have CONCORD come and massacre every bumper, that sure would make them game better!"? Or did I instead suggest that gank victims get 60 seconds of being able to warp off without impediment by bumping, in essence CONCORD escorting them from the scene of the crime. Or perhaps this is what you referred to in making the game "vastly more dangerous." Please explain further.


"Criminal" would mean flags.

Flags mean lawful engagements.

Do the math.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment