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curious , worst frigate for pvp ?
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Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#21 - 2013-01-30 01:19:08 UTC
Any frigate that doesn't have TDs fitted.

Or if you use missiles. Missiles are pretty lame.

Turning up to a fleet in a missile frigate is like cuddling up with your favourite potato and then all your friends see you and take photos and upload them to instagram.

You can't deny that it happened and it's pretty humiliating and you have this weird rash between your fingers...
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-01-30 01:52:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Andracin
Mutnin wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
The Rifter is now the worst frigate, by proxy of everything else being made better than it with the re-balancing.
It's funny how CCP always does this. They manage to take ships that actually work well and nerf bat them into the ground while improving all it's contenders. This will be the same story with the Drake & the Hurricane in the near future.
The funny part is they didn't nerf the rifter...they left it alone because pre-tiericide it was already good...then they made other frigates awesome so by comparison good isn't good anymore.
Now the next question when picking best/worst frigates is : what are you doing with it? 1v1 you need to be more careful about what your fighting and what your flying. If you take a brawler punisher against a fast kitey ship like a slasher...you are probably going to die even if it takes awhile unless the kiter just sucks. Like I said before alot of it just comes down to understanding your ship and how to fly it. If you think hitting auto-orbit and over heating is the i-win either you don't fly frigs much or you just get lucky. In gangs hull type decreases in importance compared to target selection and dps application in my experience. The last couple times I was out with 3-4 corp mates and we got in a tussel with a similar sized or larger gang the opposition all shot something diffrent or all got greedy and shot at the faction frigate which they had no hope of hitting. IMO you can still fly sub-par-post-tiericide frigs with good fits in gangs and still be successful. And its not the end of the road for balancing...CCP already said in another post that they are going to re-look at ships after they complete tiericide to fix thing they broke unintentionally.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#23 - 2013-01-30 06:49:12 UTC
Andracin wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
The Rifter is now the worst frigate, by proxy of everything else being made better than it with the re-balancing.
It's funny how CCP always does this. They manage to take ships that actually work well and nerf bat them into the ground while improving all it's contenders. This will be the same story with the Drake & the Hurricane in the near future.
The funny part is they didn't nerf the rifter...they left it alone because pre-tiericide it was already good...then they made other frigates awesome so by comparison good isn't good anymore.
Now the next question when picking best/worst frigates is : what are you doing with it? 1v1 you need to be more careful about what your fighting and what your flying. If you take a brawler punisher against a fast kitey ship like a slasher...you are probably going to die even if it takes awhile unless the kiter just sucks. Like I said before alot of it just comes down to understanding your ship and how to fly it. If you think hitting auto-orbit and over heating is the i-win either you don't fly frigs much or you just get lucky. In gangs hull type decreases in importance compared to target selection and dps application in my experience. The last couple times I was out with 3-4 corp mates and we got in a tussel with a similar sized or larger gang the opposition all shot something diffrent or all got greedy and shot at the faction frigate which they had no hope of hitting. IMO you can still fly sub-par-post-tiericide frigs with good fits in gangs and still be successful. And its not the end of the road for balancing...CCP already said in another post that they are going to re-look at ships after they complete tiericide to fix thing they broke unintentionally.


Yes that's what I'm talking about.. It was very easy to see that the Rifter despite being good in the past was going to be way out classed by all it's new counter part yet CCP decided to do nothing with it.

On the contrary, they are doing much worse to the Drake and Cane as they have actually nerfed them prior to improving all the others. Meaning they will probably be much much worse in comparison to the Rifter today.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#24 - 2013-01-30 08:38:58 UTC
I don't really see how ccp didn't see this coming with the rifter


It has ****** dps and ****** tank. Sure there are ships with a worse tank like the slasher but they have 4 mids and can TD tank.


Rifter needs a complete revamp to be viable imo. Mainly because minmatar doesn't need a 3'rd scram kite frigate =/

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-01-30 09:33:45 UTC
I don't see how CCP manages to not see half the disasters assosiated with their nerfs and balances coming...
That being said Im not going to argue that the rifter has gone from the best to the worst frig in the game in one patch. It has the same 5% to damage and 7.5% to tracking as the slasher but w/o the slasher speed (which is fine IMO because its supposed to be a brawling combat frig). Maybe if they gave it the ability to add a 4th turret or buffing the turret damage % to that equivilant. There are options for it but yeah...for now it is not the same awesome sauce ship I flew years ago...
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-01-30 12:23:34 UTC
Echelon? P

Rifter was top dog for years, and then CCP boosted it further with the 2009 ammo and AC changes. If now it's its turn to sit at the bottom for half a decade, then it deserves it.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#27 - 2013-01-30 12:54:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Snake
peoeple saying anything except rifter are doing it wrong (actually rifter can be ok fited too). BTW killed comet in the heron (so even herons can be deadly) and ventures are little bitches ;).

btw this fit is not perfect and is slow, but has full tackle,decent tracking 6,5-7k ehp 118dps and buffer from hell.
,
[Rifter, derp]

400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket

Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I


+ the venture to kill any idiot who comes to scram range ... 80 to 100 dps.

[Venture, Venture fit]

400mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
'Abandon' Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I


Hobgoblin II x2
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2013-01-30 12:57:33 UTC
Andracin wrote:
I don't see how CCP manages to not see half the disasters assosiated with their nerfs and balances coming...
That being said Im not going to argue that the rifter has gone from the best to the worst frig in the game in one patch. It has the same 5% to damage and 7.5% to tracking as the slasher but w/o the slasher speed (which is fine IMO because its supposed to be a brawling combat frig). Maybe if they gave it the ability to add a 4th turret or buffing the turret damage % to that equivilant. There are options for it but yeah...for now it is not the same awesome sauce ship I flew years ago...



I would sorta like it if they designed either the rifter or the slasher to use Arties..

Because arties are manly at it makes me sad how bad they are on frigs.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#29 - 2013-01-30 13:02:15 UTC
and if u wanna go adventurous 120-130 dps, 2,7k ehp .... good is that you allways can bail due to +2 warp stability

[Venture, Venture fit]

400mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I


Hobgoblin II x2
CaptainTr1cky
Dividing by Z3r0
#30 - 2013-01-31 06:08:24 UTC
As far as I can see the rifter gets top vote but as most Fw peeps already know its only good beeing stabbed and afk plexing....then again most frigs are good like that
Enaya Wendos
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-02-03 09:34:02 UTC
Zephyr sucks ass for pvp, if you don't believe me go try it ;)
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-02-04 10:43:25 UTC
The Punisher is worse than the Rifter in every way.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#33 - 2013-02-04 12:36:12 UTC
Whim Aqayn wrote:
The Punisher is worse than the Rifter in every way.


Actually its better in most ways. But it has 2 mids so its worse.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#34 - 2013-02-04 14:19:58 UTC
It depends in what way you want to define "worse".

If you mean in a strictly practical, fitting and fitness for combat I would probably have to go with the Rifter as much as it saddens me to say it.

If you mean in terms of its effect on the small gang PvP experience I would say the Venture, its use signals an even higher level of risk aversion than usual and it is the gift that keeps giving to plex farmers.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-02-04 15:54:52 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Whim Aqayn wrote:
The Punisher is worse than the Rifter in every way.


Actually its better in most ways. But it has 2 mids so its worse.

Assuming you fit web/scram/prop on a 3 mid punisher then any other frig with web/scram would still be able to disengage or kite you. So even with 3 mids it would be worse than a Rifter, which can at least dictate range on a good amount of ships.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#36 - 2013-02-04 16:08:01 UTC
ok ... punisher ... have any of you fools tried AB or mwd 400mm trimarked punisher? 12k ehp 100 dps on scorch. not bad for gang work. it is slow as any amar boat.

gank punisher is also not that bad ... 5k ehp 130 dps.

You just have to accept the fact that amarr ships do low armor hull tanking.
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-02-05 10:18:38 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
ok ... punisher ... have any of you fools tried AB or mwd 400mm trimarked punisher? 12k ehp 100 dps on scorch. not bad for gang work. it is slow as any amar boat.

gank punisher is also not that bad ... 5k ehp 130 dps.

You just have to accept the fact that amarr ships do low armor hull tanking.

Yeah its fine for gangs, especially with scorch and a neut.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#38 - 2013-02-05 10:30:22 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
ok ... punisher ... have any of you fools tried AB or mwd 400mm trimarked punisher? 12k ehp 100 dps on scorch. not bad for gang work. it is slow as any amar boat.

gank punisher is also not that bad ... 5k ehp 130 dps.

You just have to accept the fact that amarr ships do low armor hull tanking.


Or 5 dps if your opponent orbits you close...

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#39 - 2013-02-05 21:32:26 UTC
I like both the punisher and the rifter tbh. You just have to know what is feasible to attack/kill. If you think that prop/scram/web is the only way to PVP then you need to get out more. Punisher is an awesome small gang frig and the rifter can be fit to counter most frigs (up against a frig that is fit to do a similar role it will lose - jack of all trades syndrome) Dual rep incursus dies easily to a 'super rifter' fit.

For me the worst frig is the breacher! It looks like someone ripped off a crane and stapped an engine to it!

Style of substance anyday!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Ginger Barbarella
#40 - 2013-02-05 21:38:37 UTC
Cat Casidy wrote:
SetSail ForEpicFail wrote:
Venture Blink

Our two ventures killed an ac thrasher the other day...just sayin P


Nice... killmail? I'd love to see that one. Smile

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
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