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Anti cloak
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Vicata Heth
Sensible People
Sigma Grindset
#61 - 2013-02-22 14:31:31 UTC
Weasel Juice wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Afkcloaking thread #10981420984120948

Local is the problem
AFK cloaking is pointless if you don't show up in local
You don't deserve a perfect intel tool that tells oyu the moment someone is in system

Remove local, then we can talk about detecting cloakers


Not even that. Without local the threat would at all times be existent. And we WH dwellers manage just fine. People should be grateful that they do have a local to be more careful if they see someone. Instead they bite the hand that feeds, and demand complete security.

The problem is the mindset of the people, that heard about SOV being the ultimate carebears dream. But when they suddenly realize it's not 100% as it was advertised, they'd like the game to change to fit the advertisement.


Cloakies are perfectly balanced the way they are.

Gimped DPS, gimped tank, locking delay - just shoot them back. Categorically trying to avoid PvP? I recommend you stay docked in station, instead of ratting in a lawless region.


Until you fit a cyno on them.
Onomerous
KARNAGE
Ghostbirds
#62 - 2013-02-22 15:49:38 UTC
Vicata Heth wrote:
Onomerous wrote:
I will support this when you can give me evidence of how many ships you and your mates have lost to AFK cloakers!! Remember, they have to be AFK when they kill you.


Lock down a system with an afk cloaker? Really? That's how bad arse the NS PVP'ers are?


** posting in a not so stealth Nerf AFK cloaking thread **


I personally have not lost any ships to a cloaky camper. This is because I have no reliable way to tell if the camper is AFK or not. Therefore it is never safe for me to rat while there is a neutral cloaked in system. Sure, I could find out his ship type, and rat in something that directly counters said ship. But how do I know he doesn't have a cyno and a fleet sitting on a titan, that I'm unable to counter? I don't. Therefore, it is never safe for me to rat with a cloaky camper in system. Cloaky campers have an effect on the game while not actually playing it or even being remotely near their computer. You argue against botters because they both gain benefit, and have an effect on the game while afk. Yet you promote AFK cloaky campers, when they both gain benefit, and have an effect on the game while afk.

WTS logic.


It's NULL SEC for god sake. It is not supposed to be safe. I have great respect for TEST but come on... Really? Asking for NS to be safer?

As for Cyno + cloak? Then fix the cyno part since that could be a problem? Not advocating a change there but AFK cloak is not a problem which needs to be fix.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#63 - 2013-02-22 15:49:40 UTC
Vicata Heth wrote:
Weasel Juice wrote:
Cloakies are perfectly balanced the way they are.

Gimped DPS, gimped tank, locking delay - just shoot them back. Categorically trying to avoid PvP? I recommend you stay docked in station, instead of ratting in a lawless region.


Until you fit a cyno on them.

That cyno has no tactical value that cannot be achieved by more sensible means, except when local is reporting everything.

Without local: Opening a cyno near a hostile ship is not advised. The hostile can fire on the cyno ship, or alert other vessels close enough to respond quickly. Incoming vessels by jumping or bridging will be loading the system while being fired on by prepared vessels.
Summary, you brought a mobile gate to the ones most motivated to camp it.

With local: The cyno pilot has at a glance complete intel on all ships present. No ambush using ships already in system can surprise the pilot due to this, so he can avoid risky situations. Also, the tactical advantage of delaying the warning local gives due to a population spike of PvP ships can be delayed to the last possible moment.
Summary, you have the gate ready, and local tells you when it is safest to use it.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Onomerous
KARNAGE
Ghostbirds
#64 - 2013-02-22 15:51:25 UTC
Weasel Juice wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Afkcloaking thread #10981420984120948

Local is the problem
AFK cloaking is pointless if you don't show up in local
You don't deserve a perfect intel tool that tells oyu the moment someone is in system

Remove local, then we can talk about detecting cloakers


Not even that. Without local the threat would at all times be existent. And we WH dwellers manage just fine. People should be grateful that they do have a local to be more careful if they see someone. Instead they bite the hand that feeds, and demand complete security.

The problem is the mindset of the people, that heard about SOV being the ultimate carebears dream. But when they suddenly realize it's not 100% as it was advertised, they'd like the game to change to fit the advertisement.


Cloakies are perfectly balanced the way they are.

Gimped DPS, gimped tank, locking delay - just shoot them back. Categorically trying to avoid PvP? I recommend you stay docked in station, instead of ratting in a lawless region.


Speaks the truth!! We have cloaked up ships (possibly AFK) in our WH from time to time. It's just part of life in a WH.
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-02-22 18:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Xado
Just do what I do and throw wave after wave of procurers at them until their trigger fingers get tired and sore and they go off to somewhere else. It's not like procureres cost a lot of ISK or anything :-)

Seriously though, while I think the cloaking mechanics are fine I do agree that it should work both ways and their should be ways to find a cloaked ship, which the cloaked ship could easily avoid if he/she was paying attention.

Vigilance on both sides of the equation sounds like a good sollution to me. Personally I would be fine with removing local if there was a mechanism to hunt down cloakers. Just my humble opinion.

But who knows what CCP thinks of the issue. Has it ever came up in any of the CSM notes or anything?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#66 - 2013-02-22 18:58:54 UTC
Jason Xado wrote:
Just do what I do and throw wave after wave of procurers at them until their trigger fingers get tired and sore and they go off to somewhere else. It's not like procureres cost a lot of ISK or anything :-)

Seriously though, while I think the cloaking mechanics are fine I do agree that it should work both ways and their should be ways to find a cloaked ship, which the cloaked ship could easily avoid if he/she was paying attention.

Vigilance on both sides of the equation sounds like a good sollution to me. Personally I would be fine with removing local if there was a mechanism to hunt down cloakers. Just my humble opinion.

But who knows what CCP thinks of the issue. Has it ever came up in any of the CSM notes or anything?

As long as effort is required all around, that is just fine.

Here is the cutting point: Local intel removes effort. Knowing a hidden thing is to be found in the system, stops it from being hidden. It must take an effort to know a cloaked vessel is even present before hunting them can be balanced.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#67 - 2013-02-22 18:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
this is eve u **** in eve people can exploit others.

u signed up for the game so play it how it is..... im getting sick of ccp changing absolutely everything.

learn how to protect ureself before you venture into the great outdoors or die seriously if you complain that people can kill you you need to either stay at home or take some kung fu classes.

u have two options u weaklings choose and live your eve lives.

ccp stop being godMOMandDADJesus

Legba