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Wormholes

 
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Ideas for "Worm-hole" More Conflict......

Author
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2013-02-06 05:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: BEPOHNKA
ahhhh lot of posts i see on this topic.


At this point i would like to see more different types of living owning and gain from them. Not just a simple change in bonces you get in the system.
Sushi Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-02-06 06:41:44 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
Why don't you just go to nullsec...if you want nullsec space in wspace...same thing......people will still blob you in "wspace" as in null for it.


Yeah. What?

The Guns of Knowledge 

Taz Edenrunner
Kit TBR
#43 - 2013-02-06 08:50:16 UTC
you want more conflict in WHs....get out of your F*&king POS and home sysem and go roaming.....its easy, take a scout to scan down holes, gang jumps through hole, rinse and repeat until you find targets or targets find you

Notes:
you wont have caps to back you up
you may find yourself outnumbered
you may lose ships
you may get podded

Seriously, WH is getting stale purely because people perfer to stay in their home system and roll WHs until they find easy gank targets which present little to no risk to their ships

And stop with this 'turn WHs into null' stuff before we all blue each other and form major power blocks and turn into the nullsec bears that whine 0.0 is boring
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#44 - 2013-02-06 12:22:09 UTC
WH conflict is as good as the people living in WH. Some changes to the game can help, but as long as WH space remains on a policy of "if it moves shoot it" and people roam, we will all have fun.
Blobs can happen in WH, but unlike null, one can escape if prepared. Large alliance can be found too, but the little guys can always have their share of fun pew. WH space is special because of the people living in it.

Happy hunting!



The world needs you to stop being boring!

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-02-06 12:33:03 UTC
Taz Edenrunner wrote:

Seriously, WH is getting stale purely because people perfer to stay in their home system and roll WHs until they find easy gank targets which present little to no risk to their ships


I disagree. I think it's stale (for some people) because the mechanics are pretty simple and the only place fights happen is on a WH or in a site (which is not really pvp).

As for people rolling... If you want a fight but nothing is going on in your chain, do you expect people to just sit twiddling their thumbs until something happens?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-02-06 13:19:32 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Taz Edenrunner wrote:

Seriously, WH is getting stale purely because people perfer to stay in their home system and roll WHs until they find easy gank targets which present little to no risk to their ships


I disagree. I think it's stale (for some people) because the mechanics are pretty simple and the only place fights happen is on a WH or in a site (which is not really pvp).

As for people rolling... If you want a fight but nothing is going on in your chain, do you expect people to just sit twiddling their thumbs until something happens?


I don't think he is saying to stay in your WH and twiddle your thumbs, but instead to actually "roam"

IE, you roll your static, the WH doesnt show any activity so you scan down that WH looking for more WH's etc.

IMO I don't know if that has any better success. Last night from our home WH I spent most of the evening "roaming". I ended up finding 6 different WH's in my travels. Only one had activity with people actively running sites. They must have caught me on dscan cause they bugged out and left the system before I could figure out which WH they had come through.

In some ways having more WH connections seems like it may help. Either via multiple WH statics, or a higher rate of random (wandering) WH's. But even those seem that they might server to mostly increase the chances of ganking PVE'rs than actually causing more fights.
Taz Edenrunner
Kit TBR
#47 - 2013-02-06 15:27:08 UTC
No i do mean leave your home & static WHs, one of the things that attracted me to WH was reading blogs and forums warstories of small gangs roaming through WH space serveal connections deep from their home system and getting into engagements....All I see these days are people rolling their static looking for easy ganks.

WH is all about making the most of what CCP has given us, mass limits on WHs, the (nearly) random nature of connections, the additional skills needed to scan down the connecting WHs are key in what make it different to null. We dont have sov to fight over, no supers, large corps or alliances spread over 2 or more WH infrequently see each other, no local allowing for surprise ganks....

Do we really need to stagnate like null while begging CCP to provide conflict drivers, when all we really need to do is take more risks and get ut of home WH where dreadblapping or blobs make the majority of fights 1 sided
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#48 - 2013-02-06 15:36:25 UTC
Taz Edenrunner wrote:

Do we really need to stagnate like null while begging CCP to provide conflict drivers, when all we really need to do is take more risks and get ut of home WH where dreadblapping or blobs make the majority of fights 1 sided


Fix the people not the game :) ... although more toys and ways to use them never hurts.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-02-06 15:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
So what's the answer? climb up on a soap box and tell everyone how to play... When you've finished that i would love to hear how you think CCP would go about getting people to take more risks or roam more without changing/adding game mechanics.

In all honesty, high class and low class wormhole pvp is vastly different. In low end wormholes you tend to see a lot more tactical, small gang pvp (wich is more exciting IMO) and in high end wormholes all i see is ganks and slug fests. However, I think this is all A product of wormhole design and i don't think it's fair to criticize people for using efficient tactics.

... but we digress. This thread is about ideas to increase the incentives/opportunities for fights.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#50 - 2013-02-06 16:17:15 UTC
Preventing SD inside POS ff would motivate me to provide more opportunities for fights.

.

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-02-06 16:36:22 UTC
Roime wrote:
Preventing SD inside POS ff would motivate me to provide more opportunities for fights.



Exactly how? Cause I don't see this change causing defenders to suddenly go "ok let's fight"
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#52 - 2013-02-06 17:32:13 UTC
They don't have to fight, but at least the winners then get their ships. Or get to blow them up.

.

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-02-06 17:43:08 UTC
Roime wrote:
They don't have to fight, but at least the winners then get their ships. Or get to blow them up.



Maybe,

You'd still have to maintain full coverage during the entire OP, during the reinforcement timer. Otherwise they'd still just warp em all to safes and SD there.

Doesn't make a POS siege any less boring. Only hopefully less unprofitable.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#54 - 2013-02-06 17:51:40 UTC
Well, just a matter of perspective, PVE is boring but people do it for profit. I'd rather siege a POS for iskies than shoot red crosses.

.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#55 - 2013-02-06 18:03:46 UTC
Roime wrote:
Well, just a matter of perspective, PVE is boring but people do it for profit. I'd rather siege a POS for iskies than shoot red crosses.



You can stop shooting red crosses when you need to take a ****. You can't really stop sieging the POS for the next 8 hours though.

Bleh. **** that noise.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-02-06 18:20:38 UTC
As he said it's a matter of perspective. If someone thinks shooting a pos is more interesting than shooting sleeper, who are we to argue?!

No SDing in a ff might make the pos owners say "well we're going to lose our stuff anyway, let's not go down without a fight". Right now it's just used as a method of denying the attacker loot/killmails.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#57 - 2013-02-06 18:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
I like to think that there's objective measurements of user engagement. Staring at the screen and not interacting with it for hours and hours and hours while your lasers go "FREEEEEEEM" is not very engaging.

-Liang

Ed: On the other hand, spending a half hour organizing your titan force so that you instapop a large POS is highly engaging.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#58 - 2013-02-07 05:45:00 UTC
Liang I'm not actually arguing that the structure grind when nobody tries to shoot back would be interesting, but a siege operation with resistance and promise of shinies dropping from the hangars is far more fun than repetitive PVE- because of human interaction.

Currently it just defaults to small entities not even trying to fight back another small entity, because SD gives you ISK and saves your killboard from the chance of turning into a sea of red. POSes are disposable and finding a new similar wormhole to set up shop is trivial in all but C6s.

Like Rek said, having it all at stake might make even the furriest little bears to fleet up and give it a go. Or try to negotiate a solution.

Going thru all the hassle of a full-blown siege just to watch SD notifications for a day is among the most depressing things I've experienced in EVE.

.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#59 - 2013-02-07 05:50:48 UTC
I've gotten offers of negotiation every time I've ever been involved in knocking over a wormhole system. We've even taken some of them and gone to find other wormholes to knock over. I can't help but think people don't feel you're interested in negotiation if they're not offering it. To me, SDing is a completely legitimate tactic for denying assets to the enemy and I don't believe that removing it would help encourage people to fleet up or negotiate in any way.

Instead, it seems to me that all it'd really do is potentially let you (plural) blob harder and get bigger rewards. /shrug

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#60 - 2013-02-07 06:21:43 UTC
Yes, it would lead to bigger rewards and thus more sieges, which would result in stronger incentive to form contacts to fight the invaders.

I just think a situation that promotes small entities teaming up to protect themselves leads to more everyday pvp- a system full of active players has more potential to give birth to ad-hoc encounters than a system occupied by a small corp that is protected by lack of motivation from invaders caused SD mechanics.

Furthermore corporations teaming up in one hole with others are more likely to last longer and thrive than small startups setting up operations in some desolate hole.

Some people will say that increased risk will disencourage people from settling w-space, but I don't see any difference between a completely empty hole and one occupied by a 5-man harvesting operation who are either offline or sit in POS. Neither has any fights and we'll just roll a new one.

This of course raises the question of the amount of wormhole systems and unique properties that OP talks about. Would w-space be better if there were less holes, or more systems that would be worth fighting for than others?






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