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Wormholes

 
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Ideas for "Worm-hole" More Conflict......

Author
Shenra Twrin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-01-29 16:10:13 UTC
tgl3 wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Great. Now whenever I say wormhole I'm going to stretch it out.


worm-hole
worm-hole


worm....hole.

worm....
...
...
...
...
...
hole.

Worm..........................
............................................................................................
............................................................................................
............................................................................................
............................................................................................
............................................................................................
............................................................................................
............................................................................................
..............................-Hole

thats how u spell it right
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-01-29 16:37:19 UTC
BEPOHNKA wrote:
Point is we want NPC-0.0 built in wormhole space making for more conflict..... space which moves... dose not have to be upgraded... gives good income ... and you have to fight to control the system ships vs. ships.... maybe gain special items over time....



No we dont want NPC 0.0 built in wormholes. In fact there is already plenty of structure grinding in w-space if a group undertakes an eviction, additing stations and TCUs to the mix is not going to drive conflict, it will only create additional grind and turn players away from w-space. We also don't want station, w-space pilots are mostly averse to docking games and prefer the predetorial nature of w-space where the forces of your opponent can be seen on d-scan.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-01-29 16:42:52 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I hate how you guys are so quick to jump down someones throat for having an idea...

I've had a similar idea in the past and my corpies and i have spoken about it at length and believe that giving player the ability to upgrade their wormhole systems would increase conflict.

If we had upgrade structures that are only anchorable outside POS shields (like POCO's) then i think that would force more people to mount an offense instead of just posing up.



People in w-space POS up for three reasons. First, they either don't have the adequate amount of pilots online to mount a fight. Second, they are a small group and won't have the numbers to fight the larger aggressor. Third, they are bears who only want to make ISK. Now you are proposing that adding structure outside of POS's FF will drive towards more conflict. I have to disagree, if the group that is POSing up falls into one of the three categories above why would they come out and fight? In the end their structure will still be destroyed but now they also stand to lose all those ships.
Daenor Falknor
HunTim Trading Corp
#24 - 2013-01-29 16:53:30 UTC
The OP seems to be of the opinion that a major (potential) conflict driver in w-space would be the system benefits (NPCs, upgrades, etc). I disagree and don't think we really need any of that to drive conflict. Our existing systems already provide good benefits and plenty of iskies. The main barriers to gud-fights right now, IMO, are:
1) Challenging access to other systems
2) Quiet systems (nobody living there or all logged off).

By challenging access I simply mean that there are fairly limited connections. We have our 1 (or 2) statics and any k162s. The number of connections is not significantly different from k-space, but factor in (a) the need to scan those connections down, (b) the fact that if you come across a hole that is RENL (reaching end of natural lifetime) you can't trust it, and (c) mass limits such that if a hole is mass-disrupted it gimps the ability to use it. Obviously we have all learned to deal with those issues, and they are not all bad. They help to provide the ability for "safe" pve ops, and can reward (or burn) risk-takers. But it does put a damper on w-space travel.

I'm not in favor of any major changes to the way wormholes work. The existing mechanics (scan them down, limited mass, limited lifetime, etc) are all good and allow intelligent players to function effectively. I would simply like to see more connections, either by adding double statics to more holes (e.g. the oft-mentioned C4s), multiple statics (maybe even of random type as I saw a post suggest), or more wandering holes. It would give us more options as we travel/scout. More traveling = more people bumping into each other, which WILL produce pew-pew.

As for the empty systems or everyone offline... We need more people living in w-space. The best way for that to happen, IMO, is to fix the crappy POS system. If you fix the POS access security issues so that we can allow "half-trusted" people to live at our POS, we can allow more peeps to move in. More active pilots = more people bumping into each other, which WILL produce pew-pew.

Fixing #1 would be very easy for CCP to do. It would require no changes to the underlying mechanics. Just add more wormhole connections.
Fixing #2 is more difficult, but we REALLY need something to be done there. The big modular POS thing might not be achievable in the short-term (would certainly be nice, though) but PLEASE at least do something to improve the roles or secure access to personal POS storage.
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-01-29 17:18:01 UTC
Hmm.....inter-esting thread.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-01-29 17:46:55 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I hate how you guys are so quick to jump down someones throat for having an idea...

I've had a similar idea in the past and my corpies and i have spoken about it at length and believe that giving player the ability to upgrade their wormhole systems would increase conflict.

If we had upgrade structures that are only anchorable outside POS shields (like POCO's) then i think that would force more people to mount an offense instead of just posing up.



People in w-space POS up for three reasons. First, they either don't have the adequate amount of pilots online to mount a fight. Second, they are a small group and won't have the numbers to fight the larger aggressor. Third, they are bears who only want to make ISK. Now you are proposing that adding structure outside of POS's FF will drive towards more conflict. I have to disagree, if the group that is POSing up falls into one of the three categories above why would they come out and fight? In the end their structure will still be destroyed but now they also stand to lose all those ships.


Because these structures could cost billions.

Another category could be people that don't fight unless there is a reason. There are many reasons that people don't fight, not just the ones you listed.

But really, what are the conflict drivers in wormhole space?
Warlord Shat
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-01-29 18:43:23 UTC
smokeAjoint wrote:
there is no space for sov space in worm space

my 2 cents, don't think i need to explain myself to other wh dwellers


I second this, If you want SOV go to SOV space

There has been alot of bad suggestion on the forums lately, This is one of the worst
Joran Jackson
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#28 - 2013-01-29 19:06:59 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I hate how you guys are so quick to jump down someones throat for having an idea...

I've had a similar idea in the past and my corpies and i have spoken about it at length and believe that giving player the ability to upgrade their wormhole systems would increase conflict.

If we had upgrade structures that are only anchorable outside POS shields (like POCO's) then i think that would force more people to mount an offense instead of just posing up.



People in w-space POS up for three reasons. First, they either don't have the adequate amount of pilots online to mount a fight. Second, they are a small group and won't have the numbers to fight the larger aggressor. Third, they are bears who only want to make ISK. Now you are proposing that adding structure outside of POS's FF will drive towards more conflict. I have to disagree, if the group that is POSing up falls into one of the three categories above why would they come out and fight? In the end their structure will still be destroyed but now they also stand to lose all those ships.


I think this is a valid idea as long as you get some defenders advantage. 1 and 2 will give fights if we could get somethig where we get our enemies with pos gun/ewar on them
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#29 - 2013-01-29 20:09:24 UTC
Isn't wormhole space supposed to be unknown?
How are we capsuleers able to get in the resources to build our stations there?

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.

Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-01-29 20:28:53 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:


But really, what are the conflict drivers in wormhole space?



Why would anyone want to spend billions in upgrades when Sleeper loot is already a fairly lucrative method of making ISK? And again you are coming back to the idea where someone has to do structure shooting. Right now there are plenty of conflict drivers in w-space, drivers such as epeen, trash talk in local, blue balling on fights and so on. If you want more conflict in w-space then maybe what we need is not new reason to kill each other but rather new opportunities. Such as less w-space systems, changing "undesirable" system effects (such as black hole) into something different, more null sec connections and so on.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-01-29 20:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Straight

let's let this thread die.
Daenor Falknor
HunTim Trading Corp
#32 - 2013-01-29 21:06:36 UTC
After giving it some more thought, and considering the one aspect I had not addressed previously (hiding in your POS), I guess I can support 1 single idea that the OP floated. That's the idea of w-space systems that cannot be "owned".

As I understand it, a major complaint of a number of folks is that "carebear" inhabitants will just hide in their POS instead of fighting. And boo-hoo, we can't force them to come out and fight our 3:1 blob. Personally, I have no problem with them doing that if they want. You want them to fight, show a little bit of intelligence yourself, and use bait, etc.

However, adding "not ownable" systems (i.e. systems with no moons, therefore no ability to drop a POS), would likely entice people to be active someplace where they can't just warp to their POS. Reduce (not eliminate) sites in the current w-space systems and give these new systems more of the combat anoms and sigs (you can skip the grav/ladar sites, CCP). You want to farm sites? You can do a few in your own system, but if you want to get a bigger haul, you have to put yourself at higher risk.

Give these new systems a higher chance to be connected (kinda like the nullsec wormhole attracter upgrade brings more whs?). Five K162s with 25 combat anoms would provide a nice conflict driver without significant mechanic changes.
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-01-30 00:16:15 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


But really, what are the conflict drivers in wormhole space?



Why would anyone want to spend billions in upgrades when Sleeper loot is already a fairly lucrative method of making ISK? And again you are coming back to the idea where someone has to do structure shooting. Right now there are plenty of conflict drivers in w-space, drivers such as epeen, trash talk in local, blue balling on fights and so on. If you want more conflict in w-space then maybe what we need is not new reason to kill each other but rather new opportunities. Such as less w-space systems, changing "undesirable" system effects (such as black hole) into something different, more null sec connections and so on.


90% agree.

WH space doesn't need more ways to make POS sieging painful for any of the sides involved. IMHO it needs making all the spectrum of systems atractive. You dont find people in whs because 75% of the system you connect to are crap and unhabited. Posible changes to improve this would be:
1. Tweaking of the stats of the black hole and the other one... magnetar?
2. C4 not being useless. Probably changing the ******** way the sleepers spawn.
3. Changing the C1/NS to C1/LS and C1/HS
4. Not sure how popular would this be, but I would consider giving C1 and C3 double statics, like C2. Rigth now living in a C3 sounds like a highway to boredom. Opinions? A similar but different aproach to this would be the one posted by Borlag in the other thread.
5. If the 2 previous points aren't possible, reduce the timer for unactivated sites despawn. That would give people living in constellations with low population a higher respawn of sites to run.

Aaaand I won't say more, I fear about being stabbed in my sleep every time I post in this forum Lol
Kal Tracker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2013-01-31 02:58:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal Tracker
I would have to agree with this idea, we should add more types. But I don't like the idea of more things to shoot that aren't ships..
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-01-31 15:41:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
What's so bad about shooting structures?

POS bashes are pretty rare now but some of you are acting like it's something we have to do everyday...
Gklar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-01-31 19:06:39 UTC
Daenor Falknor wrote:
After giving it some more thought, and considering the one aspect I had not addressed previously (hiding in your POS), I guess I can support 1 single idea that the OP floated. That's the idea of w-space systems that cannot be "owned".

As I understand it, a major complaint of a number of folks is that "carebear" inhabitants will just hide in their POS instead of fighting. And boo-hoo, we can't force them to come out and fight our 3:1 blob. Personally, I have no problem with them doing that if they want. You want them to fight, show a little bit of intelligence yourself, and use bait, etc.

However, adding "not ownable" systems (i.e. systems with no moons, therefore no ability to drop a POS), would likely entice people to be active someplace where they can't just warp to their POS. Reduce (not eliminate) sites in the current w-space systems and give these new systems more of the combat anoms and sigs (you can skip the grav/ladar sites, CCP). You want to farm sites? You can do a few in your own system, but if you want to get a bigger haul, you have to put yourself at higher risk.

Give these new systems a higher chance to be connected (kinda like the nullsec wormhole attracter upgrade brings more whs?). Five K162s with 25 combat anoms would provide a nice conflict driver without significant mechanic changes.


What would you think about a new class of WH (maybe C0) that would be basically act as an entry/hub system. There would be a small number of systems in this class, but would have numerous connections (1-3 of each HS, LS, NS, C1-6, and 2 other hubs) and have no moons. This would attract both PvE players and PvP players to the system due to them containing features that both want (more access to HS, more sites for PvE, more player activity and WH connections for PvP). This idea wouldn't require any changes to any current WH mechanics, but they could benefit everyone at the same time.

To further the idea, I also thought about making these hub systems "capture-able". The more kills (ISK value) you get in a week, the higher your chances of capturing the hub system. The current week's winner would get some additional benefit that they'd lose the next week if they weren't on top the kill boards again. The benefit is up for debate, but could include things like controlling taxes in a WH market (if the hub system had a station), PvE/PvP boosts, combat sites, a static to your home all week, etc.
chris elliot
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#37 - 2013-01-31 19:29:55 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:


WH space doesn't need more ways to make POS sieging painful for any of the sides involved. IMHO it needs making all the spectrum of systems atractive. You dont find people in whs because 75% of the system you connect to are crap and unhabited. Posible changes to improve this would be:
1. Tweaking of the stats of the black hole and the other one... magnetar?


Magnetars are fine, black holes, not so much.

Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:

2. C4 not being useless. Probably changing the ******** way the sleepers spawn.


Spawn mechanics are fine, c4's apart from being really quiet are fine as well. They allow people to get into the same relative systems as c2's and c5's without the crowding of the c2's or the risk of c5 epeen swinging.

Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:

3. Changing the C1/NS to C1/LS and C1/HS
4. Not sure how popular would this be, but I would consider giving C1 and C3 double statics, like C2. Rigth now living in a C3 sounds like a highway to boredom. Opinions? A similar but different aproach to this would be the one posted by Borlag in the other thread.


c3's are already highways, adding a second static to c4's however would be interesting because it would allow higher level wormholes to funnel down to c3's and c2's and allow the c2's to funnel up the same way.

Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:

5. If the 2 previous points aren't possible, reduce the timer for unactivated sites despawn. That would give people living in constellations with low population a higher respawn of sites to run.


That would reduce the risk of wormholes though, if you can farm safely in your own system and you lock it down there is no added opportunity to kill you. Having to go out and farm in your static or chain however is, I think, a necessary part of the risk/reward ratio.


Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#38 - 2013-01-31 23:16:50 UTC
Why don't you just go to nullsec...if you want nullsec space in wspace...same thing......people will still blob you in "wspace" as in null for it.
Kal Tracker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-02-01 15:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal Tracker
Changing how we can live and do more in worm hole space should be looked into. As CCP wont change player own space.. for at least now, as they want to work on other projects. Something that can effect lot of player base, with little effect needed. Straight
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-02-04 01:29:22 UTC
chris elliot wrote:


Spawn mechanics are fine, c4's apart from being really quiet are fine as well. They allow people to get into the same relative systems as c2's and c5's without the crowding of the c2's or the risk of c5 epeen swinging.


And how would you explain that they are 'really quiet'? I went to a C4 once, to run some sites. Never again.