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Customer Support lifting previous restrictions regarding war decs

First post First post First post
Author
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2011-10-14 10:01:19 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
CCP came to the CSM for commentary on this change, we provided our feedback. It's not a conspiracy, sorry!

Are you going to tell us what feedback you provided to CCP? Or do we have to wait four months for the minutes?
Bel Amar
Rules of Acquisition
#142 - 2011-10-14 10:18:54 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
CCP came to the CSM for commentary on this change, we provided our feedback. It's not a conspiracy, sorry!

Are you going to tell us what feedback you provided to CCP? Or do we have to wait four months for the minutes?


Yeah, I'm somewhat left wondering why two delegates have basically said "We provided feedback" without bothering to expand on it.

Come on CSM, expand on the events of the discussion. If you provided feedback that amounted to "We support this change" take the time to expand on why that was your stance, rather than just providing vague comments
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#143 - 2011-10-14 10:56:26 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Oh wow is CCP trying to kill this game? Thats the only feeling im left with now after every decision they make these days.

Do you guys get together and say HOW can we make the game worse each day?


What this guy said
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#144 - 2011-10-14 11:28:02 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
In the past, there have been some policies in place within Customer Support that imposed additional rules onto the war mechanics available in game, such as the so called "Alliance Hopping" or the more recent "Dec Shield".

The decision has been made to lift those restrictions that affect war declarations, thereby opening up ways for corporations to avoid unwanted wars via methods that were previously considered exploits of game mechanics.

In other words:
If you can leave or declare a war, raise the costs for other entities to declare one to you or do any other war related things within current normal game mechanics, you may do so without having to keep other rules in mind.



Then CONCORD should lift its restrictions on DECLARING war and send us back to the days of the Privateers of 4 years ago.


God knows the game could use it.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Reppyk
The Black Shell
#145 - 2011-10-14 11:48:45 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
The Uni can avoid wars ... but they cannot avoid an old-fashioned UNIGEDDON.
I would like too (I'm a merc, it was already hard to deal with the previous wardec mechs, now it's a joke) but CCP would change the gank mechanics.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !

sukmanobov
Apollyllon
#146 - 2011-10-14 13:25:14 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
sukmanobov wrote:
Come on CCP i'd say a good 80%-85% on this forum are hating what you have done. Why is there no reply??
After all it is us the player that "shape the world" or so you keep saying. Its time for the REAL reason PLEASE.

Again you are rushing headlong. Take the time to listen to what people want and the forum has spoken, Give us a reply


I am not hating it and I think you are pulling numbers out of your rear trying to make a point only YOU can be accounted for.

CCP are not doing anyhting 'again'; quite the opposite is another forum warrior wannabee trying to speak on the behalf of people that does not share his point of view in any way. A daily occurence.

*I* believe declaring a war is dirt easy to do and as such shold be dirt easy to get out of too.


your so correct i love you. Maybe i should give up the 3 corps i own and the CEO of The 0rphanage alliance and delete my charater so i can be Science and Trade Institute corp too.
sukmanobov
Apollyllon
#147 - 2011-10-14 13:26:17 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
sukmanobov wrote:
Come on CCP i'd say a good 80%-85% on this forum are hating what you have done. Why is there no reply??
After all it is us the player that "shape the world" or so you keep saying. Its time for the REAL reason PLEASE.

Again you are rushing headlong. Take the time to listen to what people want and the forum has spoken, Give us a reply


I am not hating it and I think you are pulling numbers out of your rear trying to make a point only YOU can be accounted for.

CCP are not doing anyhting 'again'; quite the opposite is another forum warrior wannabee trying to speak on the behalf of people that does not share his point of view in any way. A daily occurence.

*I* believe declaring a war is dirt easy to do and as such shold be dirt easy to get out of too.


your so correct i love you. Maybe i should give up the 3 corps i own and the CEO of The 0rphanage alliance and delete my charater so i can be Science and Trade Institute corp too.
sukmanobov
Apollyllon
#148 - 2011-10-14 13:26:25 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
sukmanobov wrote:
Come on CCP i'd say a good 80%-85% on this forum are hating what you have done. Why is there no reply??
After all it is us the player that "shape the world" or so you keep saying. Its time for the REAL reason PLEASE.

Again you are rushing headlong. Take the time to listen to what people want and the forum has spoken, Give us a reply


I am not hating it and I think you are pulling numbers out of your rear trying to make a point only YOU can be accounted for.

CCP are not doing anyhting 'again'; quite the opposite is another forum warrior wannabee trying to speak on the behalf of people that does not share his point of view in any way. A daily occurence.

*I* believe declaring a war is dirt easy to do and as such shold be dirt easy to get out of too.


your so correct i love you. Maybe i should give up the 3 corps i own and the CEO of The 0rphanage alliance and delete my charater so i can be Science and Trade Institute corp too.
sukmanobov
Apollyllon
#149 - 2011-10-14 13:26:53 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
sukmanobov wrote:
Come on CCP i'd say a good 80%-85% on this forum are hating what you have done. Why is there no reply??
After all it is us the player that "shape the world" or so you keep saying. Its time for the REAL reason PLEASE.

Again you are rushing headlong. Take the time to listen to what people want and the forum has spoken, Give us a reply


I am not hating it and I think you are pulling numbers out of your rear trying to make a point only YOU can be accounted for.

CCP are not doing anyhting 'again'; quite the opposite is another forum warrior wannabee trying to speak on the behalf of people that does not share his point of view in any way. A daily occurence.

*I* believe declaring a war is dirt easy to do and as such shold be dirt easy to get out of too.


your so correct i love you. Maybe i should give up the 3 corps i own and the CEO of The 0rphanage alliance and delete my charater so i can be Science and Trade Institute corp too.
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#150 - 2011-10-14 14:09:09 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Just so everyone knows, here is how the original E-Uni dec shield worked:

Form say 20 corps. Have 19 war dec the 20th. Cost is a little less than 400 million a week. Then have the 20th corp join your alliance. This does not increase the cost of the 19 wars. They are still 2 million for the first, 4 million for the second, and so on. BUT...

If now a new corp decides to war dec your alliance, they will be the 20th war and must pay 1 billion a week.

There is some trick about toggling the wars mutual, then not mutual that causes the cost of a existing war dec to get reset to the higher value, but Im not sure of the details.

A somewhat cheaper way, but logistically harder, is to make 40 corps. Then have corp #1 dec #2, #3 dec #4, and so on. Then have all the even number corps join the alliance. Now you pay 40 million a week for your dec shield.


This is so obviously an abuse of game mechanics.

If CCP doesn't want to enforce this in a case by case basis, they need to modify the game rules to make dec-shielding non-viable. Perhaps a lower cap on war dec costs, or one of many other solutions.
Beanard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#151 - 2011-10-14 14:22:05 UTC
An exploit is a bug that has been called an exploit by the developers.
This particular bug has been around since 2008 or before from what I understand.
The bug has still not been fixed.
The exploit tag and disciplinary action from CCP against anyone who used the bug should have been lifted a very very long time ago since it appears that at some point CCP decided not to fix this bug.


Exploits are a particular pet pev of mine.
There are no such things as exploits there are only bugs.
Bugs should be fixed, if the developers don't fix it then it becomes a feature. Simply declaring a bug an exploit and taking disciplinary action against your customers is lazy. Fix the bug or STFU.

Garia666
CyberShield Inc
HYDRA RELOADED
#152 - 2011-10-14 14:51:40 UTC
As for the saving of high Sec POS through leaving an alliance, yes, that's easier now, but there are still ways to still destroy a tower within normal mechanics even after the war cool down due to leaving the alliance has ended (and it has been done successfully already).


This is where you can see CCP aint playing there own games..


Please be so kindly how we will be able to destroy an HIGH sec pos..
What do you propose us to do.? this **** is a fecking joke...
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#153 - 2011-10-14 14:54:57 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
In the past, there have been some policies in place within Customer Support that imposed additional rules onto the war mechanics available in game, such as the so called "Alliance Hopping" or the more recent "Dec Shield".

The decision has been made to lift those restrictions that affect war declarations, thereby opening up ways for corporations to avoid unwanted wars via methods that were previously considered exploits of game mechanics.

In other words:
If you can leave or declare a war, raise the costs for other entities to declare one to you or do any other war related things within current normal game mechanics, you may do so without having to keep other rules in mind.




I know it was discussed in CCP that new War Declaration System was on the way. This was stated a few times to want to make war decs more "Target and objective" oriented or similar.


Is this just a precursor to those changes coming up?

Thanks!

Where I am.

Synsational
Arcana Noctis
#154 - 2011-10-14 15:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Synsational
M'kay, rather than fix WD mechanics, we're gonna go ahead and introduce a new way of breaking them. If you play Eve you can now spend your isk on wardecs, which can be circumvented by the targets. This is the equivalent of, and thanks to this thread, is just as well known waste of sik, as the "Hi, I represent a legitimate Nigerian bank, and I'd like you to waste your money by...."

POS Removal dec's. Okay sure that was covered above, but did you stop to think that most moons are taken already occurred to you CCP? What if I have a new indy corp, and I want to start making stuffs. I will need to wardec, or hire mercs, to remove towers so I can setup my own. Now this goes away. As does the POS-save mission, as few will have the need for such an operation. It's like the scene in 'Lord of War" where Nicholas Cage simply change the flag and paints a new name on his freighter to avoid the police. Same thing here. M'kay, just change the corp log on the tower and it's safe. Good stuff, much better than using the spaceships and skills you train to play the game.

I read the proposed "work-around" solution of continual aggression on a tower to keep it from switching, er, I mean exploiting it's way out of getting red-misted). You're kidding right? M'kay, what you need to do, in order to kil the tower(s) you paid hundreds of millions to wardec, is talk your pilots into a nearly 2 day continuous operation (if tower is stronted). The majority of this operation, when the tower is in RF, will be spent linking fukung pics to one another in fleet chat. We are recruiting POS bash pilots.

Lastly, whether you are one of the "come to 0.0 RAWR", middle of the road, or CCP haters in the above posts, everyone can agree that by this policy, it's the middle-class and poor who will suffer the most here. The ones who cannot afford to setup alliances will not be able to enjoy this super-nifty way of avoiding wardecs. Given the sensitivity of the isk for win discussion on AUR and Noble exchange, I would think CCP would have gone the other way on this. Buy more plex and you're safe, you can buy even buy more plex and buy faction towers and faction BS'es. Just buy plex. Oh, you can't afford plex? I hope you recover from your loss.
El Geo
Warcrows
Shattered Foundations
#155 - 2011-10-14 15:35:02 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2011-10-14 15:43:55 UTC
For everyone complaining, here is a reason why the Wardec shield mechanic might be a good idea.

1. NPC corp have tax to virtual coffers, isk disseappers
2. Corps don't really have tax to virtual coffers, isk doesn't disseapper
3. CCP changes wardec rules, allowing dec shields.
4. ???
5. PROFIT! Maintaining the dec shield is very much like POS Fuel, skill que, moon mining, or PI; You have to actively iniated the wardec to yourself once a week from other corps. So, to keep so many wardecs active on yourself to effectively cockblock someone else you have to apply your own isk to shell corporation and submit to CONCORD. So....more isk is draining out of EVE. To buy your own protection is like the 11% tax NPC corp people pay, it just makes it more expensive to live a "safer" highsec life style.

So yeah, not a totally bad idea if you think about it. If you still want to complain, then don't think about it and it still makes sense...sorta Roll. I mean, do you really want to POS bash that much? And there are thousands of moons, just move farther away from the trade hubs. If you want PVP....Lowsec, FW, Red vs Blue, Null, or start your own Red vs Blue battle leagues if your so inclined you don't have to shoot every guy in highsec.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#157 - 2011-10-14 16:29:38 UTC
sukmanobov wrote:
your so correct i love you. Maybe i should give up the 3 corps i own and the CEO of The 0rphanage alliance and delete my charater so i can be Science and Trade Institute corp too.



#1 - you love him so much you posted 4 times...

#2 - Biomass is painless...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2011-10-14 16:30:18 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
For everyone complaining, here is a reason why the Wardec shield mechanic might be a good idea.

1. NPC corp have tax to virtual coffers, isk disseappers
2. Corps don't really have tax to virtual coffers, isk doesn't disseapper
3. CCP changes wardec rules, allowing dec shields.
4. ???
5. PROFIT! Maintaining the dec shield is very much like POS Fuel, skill que, moon mining, or PI; You have to actively iniated the wardec to yourself once a week from other corps. So, to keep so many wardecs active on yourself to effectively cockblock someone else you have to apply your own isk to shell corporation and submit to CONCORD. So....more isk is draining out of EVE.
Unless, like EVE University, you were supplied a method of avoid most of those CONCORD costs in setting up a very expensive nineteen corporation decshield.
Barakkus
#159 - 2011-10-14 16:47:52 UTC
boseo wrote:
*checks calender* no its not April. is there going to be any official statement as to why these derisions have been made at all, just interested to see why tbh.


Probably because it costs too much to coddle whiners when they don't get their way.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

rufeno
Black Frog Logistics
Red-Frog
#160 - 2011-10-14 16:50:03 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Aqriue wrote:
For everyone complaining, here is a reason why the Wardec shield mechanic might be a good idea.

1. NPC corp have tax to virtual coffers, isk disseappers
2. Corps don't really have tax to virtual coffers, isk doesn't disseapper
3. CCP changes wardec rules, allowing dec shields.
4. ???
5. PROFIT! Maintaining the dec shield is very much like POS Fuel, skill que, moon mining, or PI; You have to actively iniated the wardec to yourself once a week from other corps. So, to keep so many wardecs active on yourself to effectively cockblock someone else you have to apply your own isk to shell corporation and submit to CONCORD. So....more isk is draining out of EVE.
Unless, like EVE University, you were supplied a method of avoid most of those CONCORD costs in setting up a very expensive nineteen corporation decshield.



haha.

there are other big high-sec alliance out there that can easely use that tactic.

the 19 corps dec-shield is pretty easy, and cost around 200m. per week. it just take time...

3-4 people can do it in 2h, splited over 2-3 days..

even small alliance can do that. it only requires 1 paid character slot. (trial account can declare wars..)

As for every moon occupied? come on, I found 3 in the same system in like 10 minutes 5 jumps from jita.