EVE General Discussion

posting in an unstuck sticky.

Sorry they got your hopes up, but if you hadn't heard, Helicity's back.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=459247#post459247

IIRC, it was due to popular uproar by the players. So what lesson was learned?

Helicity's ban had nothing to do with Hulkageddon, your point?

Approaching two months and still nothing on this.

Permit me to ramble a moment, so as to make some small use of the subscription money I so foolishly gave to CCP, thinking that their work on 'FiS' represented a resurgence of interest in the game, only to find that in the background they are hammering the final nails into the coffin of the most populated area of the game.

When I used to post on this forum regularly, 'griefer' was a dirty word, and you'd immeditely get shot down for using it. Now I come back and find that anyone who wants to blow up spaceships in highsec is now a 'griefer' according to the majority of posters. That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about where CCP is taking the game.

But since people are being Wrong On The Internet, here I am.


"Griefing"

No. There is no such thing as griefing in EVE, or rather, the term applies only to a very small number of edge cases, as defined by CCP. Blowing up ships is a perfectly natural thing to want to do in the game, as is going after the easy targets. When I play Battlefield, and I run into someone who is new and bad at the game, I kill them. That is not 'griefing', that is playing the game. Shooting people is fun. The same holds true of EVE. Blowing up ships is fun (so I'm told).

"Noob Stomping"

You might say, "noob stomping is just dumb and is bad for the game" and I would agree, but it's not an issue, since actual noobs are in NPC corps, and thus can only be suicide ganked. To be wardecced, you must start or join a player corp, voluntarily opening yourself to the possibility of a wardec. By joining a player corp, you are declaring that you are stepping out of the kiddy pool. In this way, all wardecs are in fact consensual; nobody can wardec unless you choose to be in a player corp, just as they cannot kill you unless you choose to undock, or scam you unless you choose to chase free lunches.

"It's a sandbox"

But then, some bright spark in the back pipes up, EVE is a sandbox, so I should be able to do whatever I want. EVE is indeed a sandbox, however it is a Multiplayer Sandbox. The definition of a sandbox is not "I can do whatever I want", it is that rather than providing a specific experience, the game provides an environment and tools with which to craft your own experience. For single-player games, these definitions are functionally the same. The problem with a multiplayer sandbox is that not only can you do whatever you want, so can everyone else. You want to mine in highsec in complete peace? The game lets you. It's the other players that are the problem.

The hypocrisy of demanding the freedom to do what you like, while simultaneously demanding or celebrating the curtailment of other people's playstyles should be self-evident, but apparently it's not.

"EVE isn't a PvP game"

Yes, it really is. Being, as it is, a multiplayer sandbox, it is a shared environment which we all inhabit together and all affect. For any of it to be non-PvP, all of it would have to be non-PvP. Even if CCP made it so it was impossible to blow up spaceships in highsec, highsec would still affect the rest of the game just by being there. As long as we are all playing the same game, the guy in the corner mining endlessly has an effect on the guys fighting a war in the other corner. And so, requests to be able to act with impunity will be not be received well by those who actually understand the game.

"But people want PvE"

If people really want PvE, they are in the wrong game. End of story. But there is a positive feedback loop here. Carebears join a harsh PvP game. Carebears whine en masse (in the way that only carebears can whine) that there is harshness and PvP in this harsh PvP game. CCP tone down the harshness, and reduce the PvP opportunities. Being a more 'accessible' game, more carebears join. The whining gets louder. More nerfs. It goes on and on in a never ending cycle, eventually leading to PvP being marginalised in the areas carebears inhabit.

In this way they not only impact other people's playstyles, but also change the fundamental nature of the game, all the while whining about how everyone should be able to play however they want. And the worst part is that game like EVE are in the minority, and yet carebears insist on coming here and trying to convert it into one of their massively singleplayer games.

And this is what irks me (since the rule 'change' doesn't affect me). Carebears are the most catered to group in the game. Sure it was originally designed to be harsh, but basically ever since launch, it has steadily been getting less and less so. People play a game which doesn't cater to them, and whine and whine until it is changed to cater to them, with their call to arms being "everyone should be able to play as they want". Hypocrisy or just stupidity? You decide.

You may argue that carebears should have a place to live in the game. Carebears in the sense of miners, traders and industrialists (such as myself) can find a home anywhere in the game. You think there is no industry in 0.0? Carebears in the sense of people who don't want meaningful player interaction have a place to live: WoW.

Anyway, this has gone on long enough and no-one is going to read it all, so here is the tl;dr:

If you have ever used the word 'griefer' seriously, or think war decs are bad, or you want to be able to play without any interference from other players, gb2/WoW.

Oh, and to 'fix' wardecs, make it so defender can add anyone they like to wardec for low cost/free.

My Forum Warrior sense was tingling.

The pvp players are not in highsec, so , nothing was lost.
And the new? Wardec rule will not efect the playerbase negative.

error on quote code ?? wtf ?

The misconception here is that we all get our own little sandboxes. This is incorrect. EVE Online is one giant sandbox, which every player shares. If you want to try to stake out your little corner, just for yourself, then you'd better be prepared to defend it. That little section you staked off isn't actually yours, you've no inherent right to it, so if you don't defend it, be prepared when someone else comes along to kick some sand in your face.

PS Stop with the exclamation mark crimes.