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New Eden Open Prizes at Risk?

First post
Author
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#21 - 2013-01-29 14:26:48 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Would it have been clearer if they'd named themselves "Pwn3d"?

I know that's how I felt when trying to use their streams and archived videos the days after.

(FWIW, I enjoyed the tournament itself, but disliked Own3d all around)

you should keep in mind that user experience for these streaming sites varies a lot depending on which region you are trying to access them from.

for a long time (until well into last year) twitch.tv/justin.tv was hardly usable for HD streams in Europe (laggy, black screens, ...) and own3d.tv provided a much better experience.

on the other hand American viewers often seem to have a bad experience using own3d.tv


Interesting... makes sense why my experience was poor with Own3d then. I don't watch streams much - I'd rather be playing the game myself. But I do have interest in the Eve tournaments.

Seems to me that the streaming software these types of places are using could stand to be improved if the extra latency (or packet loss?) from longer distances is affecting them that badly.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-01-29 15:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
War Kitten wrote:
Seems to me that the streaming software these types of places are using could stand to be improved if the extra latency (or packet loss?) from longer distances is affecting them that badly.

I think it's not so much a software problem but a problem of internet infrastructure that is solved by the streaming provider setting up local servers to restream from (in contrast to individual users he can afford to pay for peering agreements etc to guarantee a stable & fast connection between his streaming servers even if they are located on different continents).

own3d is an Austrian company so it seems natural that most of their server infrastructure is located in Europe - and with the financial woes they were going through global expansion (to guarantee decent service to American or Asian customers) was probably not very high on their list of priorities.

.

Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#23 - 2013-02-01 10:48:46 UTC
Well somebody brought up another very valid concern about Own3d going under in an alliance tourney thread - what will happen to the vids of the fights? Hopefully these can get transferred to ccp's youtube. There's an awful lot of video for anyone else to record and list otherwise.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#24 - 2013-02-01 13:58:55 UTC
Let me get this straight. You make a deal with them and give the tournament streaming rights in exchange for the tournament prize fee sponsoring, and u do not ask for the cash upfront?! Thats some quality business management right there.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-02-01 14:03:08 UTC
this is eve, you should have expected the prize was a scam.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#26 - 2013-02-01 14:18:17 UTC
Is this the return of GH-SC?
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#27 - 2013-02-01 14:32:43 UTC
I think the question here is "Who got 0wn3d?" CCP for handling out the stream without gettin paid, or the tournament participants getting lured to sink some PLEX at the promiss of a real money prize without it existing in the first place.
Siigari Kitawa
New Eden Archery Club
#28 - 2013-02-01 14:43:43 UTC
I liked own3d. I was a partner with them, they paid me and I was happy for it. Their stream quality was fantastic for me by the way, 1080p @ 45 FPS, too. Transcoding options were good and meant people could view anywhere.

Twitch and own3d were/are very similar. Gripes are probably a local issue.

I will miss them.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX

Richard Galaxy
Monocle Madness
#29 - 2013-02-01 15:37:51 UTC
Wow, that's a shame about the prize money, glad to hear Navigator / CCP are on the case though. I never had any problems watching the stream (when my internet connection was good), but then again I'm in Europe, so as has been said, their server location is probably the reason for the streaming differences.

The tournament was fun, I'm with Buhhdust on that. Maybe not as exciting as the AT but definitely not on the boring side.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#30 - 2013-02-01 17:22:39 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
CCP Dolan said:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164505


CCP Bro said:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73485

"The biggest misconception I see out there is the following: “CCP is only hosting this tournament to make some quick cash off the PLEX entry fee”

I wonder why ppl come up with such ideas Bro

"This is not true in any way, shape, or form. I can see how the auction process can be interpreted in this way; especially with our good friends at Own3d providing us with the prize money, but the reality is very different."

The good friends at 0wn4d provided u with the prize money? Where is it at now?


CCP Dolan live in one of the streams:" I like cash money".

Yeah i think the players also do but it dont seem theyre getting any :D

lol 0wn3d
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#31 - 2013-02-01 17:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73485

CCP Bro said: "What most people fail to include is the significant production costs involved in a large scale production like the New Eden Open. For this tournament we are building an entirely new set, renting top of the line production equipment, and we are contracting professional sound and video engineers to ensure we deliver the best possible production to our players and fans.

You spent the PLEX money hiring "professional audiovisual engineers" to delivered the low quality video and sound feed u did?(i recall in one of the streams we waited like 10 min before you could get the audio streaming in stereo (L and R channels) , the stream video had to be run in lowest resolution 360p in order to get the least latency possible)? - I can think of amateurs that would do a better job for free.

Where are the good friends at 0wn3d now? did they close the doors and leave players empty handed? I need to get some of these good friends lol
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#32 - 2013-02-01 18:41:48 UTC
I don't get all this hate for Own3d. I've always gotten great quality streams from them
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#33 - 2013-02-01 19:01:40 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
I don't get all this hate for Own3d. I've always gotten great quality streams from them

From a business perspective, the hate makes sense to me. See, in my experience there are two kinds of internet business owner: there are the legit guys that sign contracts and follow them to the letter. Customer service is always a priority, and mutually beneficial partnerships are created to genuinely grow and strengthen both party's business interests. These are the honest business types... and they are sadly a minority.

Then you get these **** degenerates like the CEO of OwnedTV. Contracts are only honored in-so-much as they can technically be enforced. If you don't have verification enforcement clauses with them on every little thing they will find a loophole and **** you on a contract. In this case, the CEO saw the ship was going down in July at the LATEST. That did not effect business as usual. They still created contracts... promised people their due payments... etc... However, it's my contention that the decision was made in July that OwnedTV would no longer honor their financial obligations. Instead, the pay is increased for the executives to drain every last drop of capital from the company. In the meantime, OwnedTV pions are oblivious and continuing to work thinking they have a job. Partners continue to fulfill their obligations and produce content or whatever for OwnedTV thinking they are going to be compensated. All that work and effort is put forth while OwnedTV promises it's a glitch in the payment system or some other nonsense, when OwnedTV's executives know damn well they aren't going to pay for it. In bankruptcy, those obligations are nullified as the company's few remaining assets are liquidated and only the preferred AAA shareholders (again, the executives only) are compensated. People holding non-preferred securities, creditors, employees, and partners are left holding the bag. It's a scam. ...and it's technically legal.

So yah welcome to internet business: I loath people like the executives at OwnedTV. They are the lowest form of scum around. They knew this was coming and they lied to and screwed over a LOT of people while the ship was sinking.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#34 - 2013-02-01 19:31:28 UTC
Gogela said:
"From a business perspective, the hate makes sense to me."

- I agree, and i would like to tell CCP about this old saying they got where i come from, it goes like this:
" Money down before panty down. No finance, no romance."
molly666trillions
Cyber Chaos Crew
#35 - 2013-02-02 00:08:34 UTC
raven666wings said:
" Money down before panty down. No finance, no romance."

This one is also popular:
"Dont write checks with your mouth that your ass can't cash."

CyberChaosCrewTV

Offering a (small) ISK bonus for doing community work in a provable way is from my personal perspective fine.

Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-02-02 04:06:58 UTC
Gogela wrote:
In bankruptcy, those obligations are nullified as the company's few remaining assets are liquidated and only the preferred AAA shareholders (again, the executives only) are compensated. People holding non-preferred securities, creditors, employees, and partners are left holding the bag. It's a scam. ...and it's technically legal.

Laws are different depending on the country, but in the USA the employees go to the front of the line when collecting in a bankruptcy. Ahead of the shareholders, ahead of the preferred creditors, and ahead of other investors. Other than that I agree with everything else you said.

Getting fleeced by a sleazebag like the Pwn3d CEO doesn't say much for CCP's business acumen, does it?
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#37 - 2013-02-02 06:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Swidgen wrote:
Gogela wrote:
In bankruptcy, those obligations are nullified as the company's few remaining assets are liquidated and only the preferred AAA shareholders (again, the executives only) are compensated. People holding non-preferred securities, creditors, employees, and partners are left holding the bag. It's a scam. ...and it's technically legal.

Laws are different depending on the country, but in the USA the employees go to the front of the line when collecting in a bankruptcy. Ahead of the shareholders, ahead of the preferred creditors, and ahead of other investors. Other than that I agree with everything else you said.

Getting fleeced by a sleazebag like the Pwn3d CEO doesn't say much for CCP's business acumen, does it?

That's not true. It's actually bondholders first (depending on the wording of those contracts). Pensions and employee pay are now treated as normal debt... employees would be payed after preferred stock holders (again depending on wording of the issue) and before creditors. Pensions are actually paid after creditors and virtually all other obligations if you can believe it, but now pensions are even written off in bankruptcy. So! If a company goes bankrupt the pension obligations are null. IF the company can make it through bankruptcy and keep operating, the debts and pensions will never be paid back... they are gone, but in that instance the overdue pay to employees must be paid before the bankruptcy procedure can be called "complete". If the company just goes out of business though no, while the employees SHOULD be paid they seldom are.

For CCP, 10k isn't a big deal.

Edit: Just went to double check because it's been I while since I did this stuff: So preferred stock holders will often be paid even before bondholders, but not always. Employee pay is actually put in the same category as other creditor debt, and believe it of frickin' not, can be written off in the bankruptcy (I didn't know that until just now). That's up to the judge and the lawyers. However, bondholders and preferred stock holders get paid before ANYBODY. The stockholders w/ voting rights, the judge, and the lawyers fight it out for the rest and what happens next.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#38 - 2013-02-02 08:59:05 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Swidgen wrote:
Gogela wrote:
In bankruptcy, those obligations are nullified as the company's few remaining assets are liquidated and only the preferred AAA shareholders (again, the executives only) are compensated. People holding non-preferred securities, creditors, employees, and partners are left holding the bag. It's a scam. ...and it's technically legal.

Laws are different depending on the country, but in the USA the employees go to the front of the line when collecting in a bankruptcy. Ahead of the shareholders, ahead of the preferred creditors, and ahead of other investors. Other than that I agree with everything else you said.

Getting fleeced by a sleazebag like the Pwn3d CEO doesn't say much for CCP's business acumen, does it?

That's not true. It's actually bondholders first (depending on the wording of those contracts). Pensions and employee pay are now treated as normal debt... employees would be payed after preferred stock holders (again depending on wording of the issue) and before creditors. Pensions are actually paid after creditors and virtually all other obligations if you can believe it, but now pensions are even written off in bankruptcy. So! If a company goes bankrupt the pension obligations are null. IF the company can make it through bankruptcy and keep operating, the debts and pensions will never be paid back... they are gone, but in that instance the overdue pay to employees must be paid before the bankruptcy procedure can be called "complete". If the company just goes out of business though no, while the employees SHOULD be paid they seldom are.

For CCP, 10k isn't a big deal.

Edit: Just went to double check because it's been I while since I did this stuff: So preferred stock holders will often be paid even before bondholders, but not always. Employee pay is actually put in the same category as other creditor debt, and believe it of frickin' not, can be written off in the bankruptcy (I didn't know that until just now). That's up to the judge and the lawyers. However, bondholders and preferred stock holders get paid before ANYBODY. The stockholders w/ voting rights, the judge, and the lawyers fight it out for the rest and what happens next.


In the UK the first person to be paid is the taxman Lol
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-02-02 10:20:26 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
LOL, wow, the prizes for a boring, unwatched, worthless contest got lost in the shuffle...Who'd a thunk...Shocked




I watched it.
therefore by definition it cannot have been "unwatched".
The world does not revolve around you.













The world rolls over you.
this post deserves a like ffs.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-02-02 10:32:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Gogela please stfu, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Own3d Entertainment GmbH is an Austrian GmbH and just about every single piece of "information" you posted does either not apply or is factually wrong.

Heck, we don't even know if own3d has actually filed for bankruptcy (they sure don't show up in the url=http://www.edikte.justiz.gv.at/edikte/edikthome.nsf/]official registry[/url] - "Insolvenzdatei" - but their filing might not yet have been processed yet) or if they are still trying to reach a settlement with their various creditors.

The only important points if own3d owes you money are right now:

* a debt settlement would have to be completely unanimous.

* keep your eyes peeled on the site I linked above, if own3d files for bankruptcy you need to register your claims at the court handling the case (form at Linkage) in order to get your share of the payout.

* you might be able to sue own3d management for "Krida" (harming the creditors' interests), inability to pay their bills for several months while continuing to run up new obligations looks very fishy.
The burden of proof for bringing criminal charges is pretty high (negligently delaying filing for bankrupt or excessive taking on of new debts alone is not sufficient, wanton/gross negligence must be shown) but civil charges can be pressed more easily. (This is your chance to break the GmbH's liability limitation and go for its management's coffers.) Talk to your lawyer.

If own3d doesn't owe you money, why do you care?

.