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Problem with super nerf - super caps are committed for 23 hours and die if the subcap fleet welps
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DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2011-10-11 05:45:06 UTC
You mean... it's actually possible to lose supercaps now?
Like every other ship in the game?
Shocked
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#122 - 2011-10-11 07:22:32 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
You mean... it's actually possible to lose supercaps now?
Like every other ship in the game?
Shocked
Horribly unfair, isn't it?
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
#123 - 2011-10-11 07:29:58 UTC
If you can't logoffski there's always self-destruct. Can't save the ship then deny the killmail and loot.
Wen Jaibao
Perkone
Caldari State
#124 - 2011-10-11 07:32:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Wen Jaibao
xxxak wrote:
This nerf = Lose Subcap battle, lose all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, so now supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in if they lose the subcap battle.

Hypothetically, this means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


Good. Maybe supercaps will actually, you know, DIE now. Its about time your constant gravy train ride ended, if you ask me.
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#125 - 2011-10-11 07:32:26 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
:David Attenborough:

And here, we see the FOTM kiddie in its natural habitat, the forums. This one has just lost his ability to hunt with impunity, never needing to rely on his wit nor his skill. Having grown soft when he could hunt with ease, he has realized that he may struggle to hunt, now that he is on a level playing field with the rest of the jungle. His response, as you can see, is to pull out his hair and gnash at the shadows, occasionally screaming gibberish. He may not survive the winter.

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
miningtool
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2011-10-11 09:11:40 UTC
Karnhell wrote:
1. Remote ECM burst nerf. Not sure how this makes a big difference, but fine.

2. 20% HP reduction. Fine, this is a needed change.

3. Fighters and fighter-bombers only. So now I can't shoot towers anymore, only the mods outside of the shield. Every other ship in the game can do this, but supers can't. Silly, but whatever. I can see why it was done so I'll live with this nerf too.

4. Reduce dronebay from 200k to 125k (Aeon). Um, what? First I can only have fighters and fighter-bombers, then you tell me I can only carry a full complement of one plus five of the other? Now I'm getting mad. Forget deploying anywhere, who's going to carry the other half of my drones for me in case I need to swap out from structure shoot to fleet fight? And now, since I still can't dock, I need a POS with a corp hangar to hold them and a ship hangar for the fitting service to do the swap. Dumb dumb dumb. May as well just carry fighters only and let much (much!) cheaper Dreads do the structure shoots. Except...

5. Increase fighter signature resolution from 125 to 400. Seriously? Are you on crack? First I can't carry regular drones now my fighters are pretty useless for anything other than shooting structures and capitals. Well, I guess they'll hit a battleship. If it's sitting still. Maybe.

Side note: the fighter nerf affects all carriers, not just supers. No more ratting or assigning fighters with any carrier.

6. Change to logoff mechanics. ZOMGWTFMADBRO! You're telling me that if I get tackled by some silly little Flycatcher I'm completely screwed?! Follow me here: I can't jump or warp while bubbled. I can't launch Hobgoblins or Gardes and kill him because I don't have those anymore thanks to #3. I can't launch fighters and kill him, my fighters (if I even had room to bring them thanks to #4) can barely hit a battleship thanks to #5, how much luck will they have against a destroyer? And I can't log off (or god help me, lose my internet connection) because as long as he shoots me once every 15 minutes he can basically hold me there until he runs out of bubbles (over three hours!). That's just one example. Imagine sitting there aggro with your big expensive shiny ship, losing your internet connection, finally getting back on and finding that you were killed because someone probed you with a T1 frigate (supers are EASY to probe out) and shot you once every 15 minutes for 22 hours until his buddies finally formed up. No reason to rush, it's not like you're going anywhere! Crazy. And is this change really needed after implementing #2? I'd rather take a 40% HP reduction than take this change to logging off.

So, to re-cap:
#1 is fine.
#2 is fine and long overdue.
#3 or #4 but not both.
#5 is complete crap. Every carrier pilot should be screaming.
#6 means it's too risky to log in for more than updating skill queue. May as well let the account lapse until it's un-nerfed :(


this is the best post in the whole thread
miningtool
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2011-10-11 09:55:59 UTC
Nurdra wrote:


can anyone show me 1 or 2 reason? (serious question)


I can not really think of a reason other than e-peen

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

I think its a fallacy to begin with to even compare the two directly. Supercarriers are not be-all end-all DPS ships. They are larger cousins of carriers, which are a LOGISTICS ship.

Dread guns are extremely limited. They cannot hit moving targets well. Fighters can.

Supercarriers CARRY OTHER SHIPS. You can stash a fleet in them. Your buddies can jumpclone to you, and undock in whatever ship you have in your belly.

Supercarriers can use remote reps. Supercarriers can use Remote ECM bursts, a powerful area of attack weapon.

Supercarriers have the proper type DPS to kill a ship class smaller than themselves (Battleships). Dreads can only attack ships of the same size or larger.

Need more reasons?

Yes, these changes make it difficult to open the EvE ship book and point to the one that is "teh best". But thats the way it should be.

People asking these questions, along with the ones raging over how the changes "destroyed supers", are totally not ready to be flying capital ships to begin with.

I'd start with frigates, than cruisers, than BC's, and learning which ships are used for logi, which are used for DPS, which are used for support, and being able to tell the difference....these are pretty critical skills that appear to be lacking amongst 90% of the supercap pilots of EvE, based on the reactions to the changes.



I honestly can't tell if your trolling or if your really just don't know anything about eve online and the ships in it but since I can't tell I will start pointing out mistakes

SUPERCARRIERS CANNOT FIT CLONE VAT BAYS titans and rorqs only

Tracking is based off of transversal vorticity ie a erebus catches your dramiel burning straight at it at 10kps it will still hit it so I thought I would bring this up to point out dreads can hit ships other than capitals

fighters are being nerfed also they are moving their sig resolution from 125 to 400
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2011-10-11 10:46:14 UTC
miningtool wrote:
Karnhell wrote:
1. Remote ECM burst nerf. Not sure how this makes a big difference, but fine.

2. 20% HP reduction. Fine, this is a needed change.

3. Fighters and fighter-bombers only. So now I can't shoot towers anymore, only the mods outside of the shield. Every other ship in the game can do this, but supers can't. Silly, but whatever. I can see why it was done so I'll live with this nerf too.

4. Reduce dronebay from 200k to 125k (Aeon). Um, what? First I can only have fighters and fighter-bombers, then you tell me I can only carry a full complement of one plus five of the other? Now I'm getting mad. Forget deploying anywhere, who's going to carry the other half of my drones for me in case I need to swap out from structure shoot to fleet fight? And now, since I still can't dock, I need a POS with a corp hangar to hold them and a ship hangar for the fitting service to do the swap. Dumb dumb dumb. May as well just carry fighters only and let much (much!) cheaper Dreads do the structure shoots. Except...

5. Increase fighter signature resolution from 125 to 400. Seriously? Are you on crack? First I can't carry regular drones now my fighters are pretty useless for anything other than shooting structures and capitals. Well, I guess they'll hit a battleship. If it's sitting still. Maybe.

Side note: the fighter nerf affects all carriers, not just supers. No more ratting or assigning fighters with any carrier.

6. Change to logoff mechanics. ZOMGWTFMADBRO! You're telling me that if I get tackled by some silly little Flycatcher I'm completely screwed?! Follow me here: I can't jump or warp while bubbled. I can't launch Hobgoblins or Gardes and kill him because I don't have those anymore thanks to #3. I can't launch fighters and kill him, my fighters (if I even had room to bring them thanks to #4) can barely hit a battleship thanks to #5, how much luck will they have against a destroyer? And I can't log off (or god help me, lose my internet connection) because as long as he shoots me once every 15 minutes he can basically hold me there until he runs out of bubbles (over three hours!). That's just one example. Imagine sitting there aggro with your big expensive shiny ship, losing your internet connection, finally getting back on and finding that you were killed because someone probed you with a T1 frigate (supers are EASY to probe out) and shot you once every 15 minutes for 22 hours until his buddies finally formed up. No reason to rush, it's not like you're going anywhere! Crazy. And is this change really needed after implementing #2? I'd rather take a 40% HP reduction than take this change to logging off.

So, to re-cap:
#1 is fine.
#2 is fine and long overdue.
#3 or #4 but not both.
#5 is complete crap. Every carrier pilot should be screaming.
#6 means it's too risky to log in for more than updating skill queue. May as well let the account lapse until it's un-nerfed :(


this is the best post in the whole thread


Your stuff. To me. Give. Then :getout:
Evil Celeste
#129 - 2011-10-11 10:52:50 UTC
miningtool wrote:
Karnhell wrote:
1. Remote ECM burst nerf. Not sure how this makes a big difference, but fine.

2. 20% HP reduction. Fine, this is a needed change.

3. Fighters and fighter-bombers only. So now I can't shoot towers anymore, only the mods outside of the shield. Every other ship in the game can do this, but supers can't. Silly, but whatever. I can see why it was done so I'll live with this nerf too.

4. Reduce dronebay from 200k to 125k (Aeon). Um, what? First I can only have fighters and fighter-bombers, then you tell me I can only carry a full complement of one plus five of the other? Now I'm getting mad. Forget deploying anywhere, who's going to carry the other half of my drones for me in case I need to swap out from structure shoot to fleet fight? And now, since I still can't dock, I need a POS with a corp hangar to hold them and a ship hangar for the fitting service to do the swap. Dumb dumb dumb. May as well just carry fighters only and let much (much!) cheaper Dreads do the structure shoots. Except...

5. Increase fighter signature resolution from 125 to 400. Seriously? Are you on crack? First I can't carry regular drones now my fighters are pretty useless for anything other than shooting structures and capitals. Well, I guess they'll hit a battleship. If it's sitting still. Maybe.

Side note: the fighter nerf affects all carriers, not just supers. No more ratting or assigning fighters with any carrier.

6. Change to logoff mechanics. ZOMGWTFMADBRO! You're telling me that if I get tackled by some silly little Flycatcher I'm completely screwed?! Follow me here: I can't jump or warp while bubbled. I can't launch Hobgoblins or Gardes and kill him because I don't have those anymore thanks to #3. I can't launch fighters and kill him, my fighters (if I even had room to bring them thanks to #4) can barely hit a battleship thanks to #5, how much luck will they have against a destroyer? And I can't log off (or god help me, lose my internet connection) because as long as he shoots me once every 15 minutes he can basically hold me there until he runs out of bubbles (over three hours!). That's just one example. Imagine sitting there aggro with your big expensive shiny ship, losing your internet connection, finally getting back on and finding that you were killed because someone probed you with a T1 frigate (supers are EASY to probe out) and shot you once every 15 minutes for 22 hours until his buddies finally formed up. No reason to rush, it's not like you're going anywhere! Crazy. And is this change really needed after implementing #2? I'd rather take a 40% HP reduction than take this change to logging off.

So, to re-cap:
#1 is fine.
#2 is fine and long overdue.
#3 or #4 but not both.
#5 is complete crap. Every carrier pilot should be screaming.
#6 means it's too risky to log in for more than updating skill queue. May as well let the account lapse until it's un-nerfed :(


this is the best post in the whole thread


Its indeed most satysfing. Lol
Holy One
Privat Party
#130 - 2011-10-11 11:02:38 UTC
xxxak wrote:
This nerf = Lose Subcap battle, lose all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, so now supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in if they lose the subcap battle.

Hypothetically, this means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


No, supercaps online is dead. Eve is now very much back off life support.

:)
Matt Douglass
Aedron Holding.
#131 - 2011-10-11 11:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Matt Douglass
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
man im not even in 0.0 and the tears are fueling me



This, really. I have a special bucket to collect the tears of all those rich punks who are
cry'ing a river coz their 'push-to-win-button' don't exist anymore soon.

Your 25b toy just got worthless ? Or, you mad bro coz you can't whore-rat in it anymore ? LolLolLolLol
Seriously, props to CCP for finally fixing this (and probably srsly rebalancing 0.0)

*grabs more popcorn*
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#132 - 2011-10-11 11:54:39 UTC
Nothing like being ganked by 1000 ibis's.
AfroHorse
Small Hole Much Liquid
#133 - 2011-10-11 11:59:31 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Nothing like being ganked by 1000 ibis's.



Best SuperCap km ever!

Also Im an Aeon pilot n the only thing i think is a tad annoying is the drone bay size reduction. Everything else seems fair and a needed change (the fighter nerf has been removed according to tallest).
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#134 - 2011-10-11 12:22:26 UTC
xxxak wrote:
This nerf = Lose Subcap battle, lose all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, so now supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in if they lose the subcap battle.

Hypothetically, this means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


i didnt see anywhere in the changes wher eyou can not be allowed to cyno out of a system after engagement, why cant you just cyno out if its so bad?
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#135 - 2011-10-11 12:55:21 UTC
Confirming your biggest whinge is the logoffski fix forcing you to commit to a battle?

Bye!

Also, your stuffs... would you please distribute it?

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#136 - 2011-10-11 14:08:15 UTC
xxxak wrote:
This nerf = Lose Subcap battle, lose all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, so now supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in if they lose the subcap battle.

Hypothetically, this means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


Makes alliance level 0.0 warfare a high-risk thing with massive casualties ... basically good.

If people are too chicken-scared to commit then they don't deserve to hold space.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2011-10-11 14:15:10 UTC
Jade Constantine has spoken.
WisdomLikeSilence
BurgerkingTM
#138 - 2011-10-11 14:32:50 UTC
xxxak wrote:
This nerf = Lose Subcap battle, lose all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, so now supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in if they lose the subcap battle.

Hypothetically, this means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.



So now supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in if they lose the subcap battle.


Strange, you posit this as a problem - when it is in fact the generally agreed upon INTENDED EFFECT.

Commit to the battle, or die, or dont bring a super - those are your 3 choices.
Doddy
Excidium.
#139 - 2011-10-11 14:47:53 UTC
xxxak wrote:
This nerf = Lose Subcap battle, lose all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, so now supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in if they lose the subcap battle.

Hypothetically, this means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


If your alliance can't reship its sub cap fleet in 23 hours you are not a mid size alliance. If your alliance cant organizing killing some dictors in 23 hours you are not a mid sized alliance. Also where are your carriers man, they can kill subcaps and rep supers, didn't you know?
Infinimo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2011-10-11 14:55:18 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Dude just buy a monocle, will feel better and play better.

sure does Cool

Theta Squad best squad. Monocle crew represent~