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CCP... The Simple Solution to the NPC Corp Issue
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Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#101 - 2013-01-28 22:25:01 UTC
then everyone will just keep their NPC alt in their noob school.

like me lol.

forums.  serious business.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#102 - 2013-01-28 22:40:12 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
then everyone will just keep their NPC alt in their noob school.

like me lol.


ok then and after x amount of time or gained sp you are given the choice to either join FW of your choice or go it alone...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2013-01-28 22:40:47 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
i have to say i like the idea of getting rid of anything but noob npc corps and making a character independent if they are not members of a corp...

that way it takes away the war dec shield as you can now war dec a character...

i would also make standard personal tax rate of 10% that goes as a fee to concord for non corp membership registration fees... the fees are used for stargate maintenance as a pr excuse....

Why should a non-aligned player suffer any cost beyond what a 1man corp does?
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#104 - 2013-01-28 22:45:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
MeBiatch wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
then everyone will just keep their NPC alt in their noob school.

like me lol.


ok then and after x amount of time or gained sp you are given the choice to either join FW of your choice or go it alone...


fair enough but i'm a meta player. wardeccing me is kind of pointless 'cos either I'll simply log out for a week and play with my fw character or I'll clone jump to somewhere utterly horrible like syndicate and log out in space, and maybe do a spot of cloaky exploration or ratting instead. I have an alt in jita i can buy anything and contract it anywhere.

forums.  serious business.
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#105 - 2013-01-28 23:16:54 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
The simple solution to the High Sec problem of NPC Corps is pretty obvious to me, and implementing this will add content, give greater meaning to character racial choices, and overall improve the Storyline of EvE Online.

Make the NPC Corps an active part of the Faction War system. If you don't want to be an Economical or Political Faction War targetable asset, then you can always form your own corporation. Seriously, only the Training Academys and Schools should be neutral and protected. Everything else should rightfully be either a player owned corp, or a part of the Ruling Faction of their area of High Sec. Honestly, if you don't want to be involved in EvE Online just go find another game....

I know I can hear the trolls and carebears already lining up to trash this idea, but hey this is what happens in GD.

.



Absolutely!

And NPC faction navies should be able to deploy their own caps and supers in highsec as well.
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#106 - 2013-01-29 00:00:11 UTC
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:


Absolutely!

And NPC faction navies should be able to deploy their own caps and supers in highsec as well.


Ah... only if and when the FW pilot has a sufficiently high Faction Standing, and Security Standing. If they meet that criteria, then sure why not allow them to fly their Supercarrier or Titan in Empire.... they are "Trustworthy" are they not?

And I'm not saying that players should leave NPC Corps, they can stay if they want. I'm just saying that there should be a game mechanism other than Suicide Ganking ( a historically despirate war tactic employed by partisans who have already effectively lost, and are trying to disrupt and weaken a far superior adversary ). This game as advertised is about conflict. It's not WOW or Hello Kitty Online.... Risk to Reward ratio for NPC Corps is absolutely OP.

In Faction Wars, it is Militia vs Militia, all backed by NPC Corp Factions. What good reason is there to NOT be attacking the opponents Infastructure, Economic Targets of Opportunity, and Supply/Courier Lines? These are all considered valid targets in every conflict I've ever studied.

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Balthisus Filtch
RISE Inc.
#107 - 2013-01-29 00:26:34 UTC
What a sad post.

Simple solution is leave them as they are - working as intended.

Why the hell you can't just leave other people to enjoy the game as they see fit is weird. There is massive content all over the game, why the hell do you worry yourself about what people in NPC corps are doing.

Sandbox done well means enjoying the game in an infinite number of ways. This is the absolute strength of Eve. Why you would want to narrow it would be completely counter productive - reducing player numbers.

Encourage and recruit people from NPC corps if you are so worried they are missing out on stuff and are going to sit in NPC forever.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2013-01-29 00:30:42 UTC
So if I tend to restrict my activities to highsec of 2 allied empires I'd be pretty much completely unaffected?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#109 - 2013-01-29 00:45:31 UTC
Balthisus Filtch wrote:
What a sad post.

Simple solution is leave them as they are - working as intended.

Why the hell you can't just leave other people to enjoy the game as they see fit is weird. There is massive content all over the game, why the hell do you worry yourself about what people in NPC corps are doing.


Because of basic game product fairness. If I pahy a sub, can make isk and can be war decced, EVERYONE beyond the noob stage should likewsie be vulnerable to the same thing (OR their should be some massive advantage to bine in a player corp to compensate).

NPC Corps are an exampleof a lot that's wrong with High Sec and why high sec personalietes are....off. An NPC corp is litterally CCP saying to a player "YOU can come in and play the game and have an affect on everyone else, but no one can screw with YOU unless they suicide their ship or you aggress 1st".

It's BS.

Quote:

Sandbox done well means enjoying the game in an infinite number of ways. This is the absolute strength of Eve. Why you would want to narrow it would be completely counter productive - reducing player numbers.


This is worse than misunderstanding, this is a lie. There is Zero evidence that people will quit the game for anyreason except ridiculasly expensive monocles. That "carebear conventional wisdom" that people will quit the game if you change something has not only been proven false,it's been proven false RECENTLY. people swore they would quit with the NPC AI change and nerfed heavy missiles, yet I see no slackin in the carebearin.

Quote:

Encourage and recruit people from NPC corps if you are so worried they are missing out on stuff and are going to sit in NPC forever.


no on cares if they are missing out. We care that they get to affect the game (every isk they make, every min they mine affects everyone else) while being immune from retaliation. it's un-EVE-like
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2013-01-29 00:51:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

This is worse than misunderstanding, this is a lie. There is Zero evidence that people will quit the game for anyreason except ridiculasly expensive monocles. That "carebear conventional wisdom" that people will quit the game if you change something has not only been proven false,it's been proven false RECENTLY. people swore they would quit with the NPC AI change and nerfed heavy missiles, yet I see no slackin in the carebearin.

An interesting statement which seems to indicate that you have a great deal of data on how many people quit the game or reduce accounts and their reasons. While I'm sure very little can ever come to the same level of the summer of rage, I'd be genuinely surprised if a change as widespread as this wouldn't cause at least a few people to rage quit.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#111 - 2013-01-29 00:53:27 UTC
regarding risk reward, since your only advantage (afaik) over NPC corps is research then I would maximise that potential. perhaps NPC corp character's industry abilities should be nerfed but that is not the case currently so utliise the market for your needs and benefit from our situation.

forums.  serious business.
Balthisus Filtch
RISE Inc.
#112 - 2013-01-29 01:09:24 UTC
Jenn - maybe you (or anyone else) could tell me what people in NPC corps are doing that affects your game so much to make you this mad.

All I saw was a lot of new players getting their first taste of the social side of Eve in an environment that was 99.9% of the time non-exploitative and then a handful of long term players who had made friends in NPC and for whom that corp was their community.

I don't think its the optimum way to enjoy the game but I am not seeing some huge need to kick their game in and for new players the mechanism is working fine.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2013-01-29 01:20:53 UTC
It's simple... after x amount of time you get booted from the NPC corp and put into a different NPC corp that is not wardec immune.

Genius! I swear my talents are wasted here...

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#114 - 2013-01-29 01:28:36 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Balthisus Filtch wrote:
What a sad post.

Simple solution is leave them as they are - working as intended.

Why the hell you can't just leave other people to enjoy the game as they see fit is weird. There is massive content all over the game, why the hell do you worry yourself about what people in NPC corps are doing.


Because of basic game product fairness. If I pahy a sub, can make isk and can be war decced, EVERYONE beyond the noob stage should likewsie be vulnerable to the same thing (OR their should be some massive advantage to bine in a player corp to compensate.)


You choose to be in a player corp. With that advantage (adjustable tax rate, ability to set corp standings, shared corp standings, join an alliance, corp hangers, pos ownership, ability to recruit, assign roles, etc), whether you have it or your directors do, comes the added risk of wardecs. Your assumption is that everyone should face the risk of being wardecced. The reality is that risk only happens to those who choose to be in a player corporation.

And being in a corp does confer a huge advantage. Do you think members if goon or test would wish to be forced to set personal standings for every enemy, blue, light blue, etc, that they face? How many people have jump clones because of a player corp?

Your view is that these npc corp members take no risk, and have huge reward. The reality is, they are limited by their choice too, and for that risk they take, they are rewarded with wardec immunity.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#115 - 2013-01-29 01:38:15 UTC
you won't change behaviour like this anyway. I live with a permanent wardec on my fw alt and if I feel like avoiding conflict then I can usually avoid it because I am a little skilled at the game of cat and mouse. and some of the pirates who hunt us are really good.

i guess if this ever changed and I could become wardeccable then I'll just go and live in NPC null. I sort of like bumming around high in this character but I could adapt.

forums.  serious business.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#116 - 2013-01-29 01:56:42 UTC
Like AFK cloaking it isn't remotely an issue. Let people play how they want to, they are already penalized for being in an NPC corp.

I don't see why people constantly want to dictate to others how they play the game.
Dave stark
#117 - 2013-01-29 02:12:08 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
they are already penalized for being in an NPC corp.


not really.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#118 - 2013-01-29 02:18:17 UTC
I *still* like my idea best: add a role-playing element to NPC corps to make them harder to live in. Specifically, have them routinely change their relationships with various corps and empires so that your membership in an NPC corp can make it hard to get by. If Perkone is suddenly disliked by the Caldari Navy and members of Perkone can no longer dock in Jita 4-4, you can be those NPC corps will suddenly become a lot less appealing. It could affect docking permissions, agent and facility availability, tax rates, everything. It would make long-term residence in NPC corps almost unbearable.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#119 - 2013-01-29 02:26:24 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Sean Parisi wrote:
they are already penalized for being in an NPC corp.


not really.


They cannot claim sov, they do not have access to standings, they are unable to save the 11% tax rate. They have to rely on the use of public slots as opposed to establishing their own POS, which can be used for moon mining, research and logistics. They cannot declare war on other people.

So they receive war immunity. They don't have any hard assets, so its not a big deal anyways.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#120 - 2013-01-29 02:29:28 UTC
Okay, after catching up on the thread, I see a particular thing repeated over and over again by NPC corp members:

"I'm not interested in PVP"

Great. Don't buy or sell anything. Don't use up any station research or manufacturing slots. Don't mine, either, because someone else might want those rocks. Because all those things compete directly with other people for limited resources, and are part of the PVP world that is Eve.

The problem with NPC corps, for those who still don't grasp it, is that they protect players from one major aspect of PVP--combat--while allowing them to participate in the rest of it with no consequence beyond a piddling tax on the NPC bounties they might collect.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.