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CCP... The Simple Solution to the NPC Corp Issue
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Aether Serval
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#261 - 2013-01-29 22:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Aether Serval
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

So you are ignoring Incursion to make Incursion look good. Glad we can establish that. Ban NPC corps.


You do know deleting everything that proves you wrong in a quote still leaves it readable in the op right?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#262 - 2013-01-29 22:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Aether Serval wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

So you are ignoring Incursion to make Incursion look good. Glad we can establish that. Ban NPC corps.


You do know deleting everything that proves you wrong in a quote still leaves it readable in the op right?

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
player activity on Incursion release: 31,488
player activity 6 months after Incusion release: 29,495
Still there.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#263 - 2013-01-29 22:37:26 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
I don't really care how you pay for your sub, I merely object to the concept that "endless grinding and gold farming so I can PLEX several eve subs" is a 'playstyle' that needs to be respected & catered to at all costs and granted special advantages like wardec immunity.


they're not catering to me though, they're catering to the guy on the other side of that trade. He's the guy paying hundreds of dollars so he doesn't have to grind.
Indeed, so there is no problem if NPC corps are removed.

Quote:
So the list of things you don't like includes segregated PvP and PvE 'arenas' , gold auctions and metagaming. Are you sure this game is really for you?
For an NPC corp member I guess those sound like very anti-EVE qualities.


well that seems incoherent. don't feel you need to keep replying if you can't make the effort. I think we all got the slogan.

forums.  serious business.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#264 - 2013-01-29 22:45:33 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
well that seems incoherent. don't feel you need to keep replying if you can't make the effort. I think we all got the slogan.
Incoherent is claiming a position of being against 'segregated PVP and PVE arenas' is an anti-EVE quality.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#265 - 2013-01-29 23:02:49 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
well that seems incoherent. don't feel you need to keep replying if you can't make the effort. I think we all got the slogan.
Incoherent is claiming a position of being against 'segregated PVP and PVE arenas' is an anti-EVE quality.


they aren't really though it's legit to gank people. that's very eve.

lol do you really have a 10% corp tax rate? that seems a little steep.

forums.  serious business.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#266 - 2013-01-29 23:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Goonswarm's is 15%, player average is 10%.
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#267 - 2013-01-29 23:37:54 UTC
so many stupid people posting in this thread. Im not going to exclude myself from that tbh, but seriously:

C.S.Lewis wrote:
Logic! Why don't they teach logic at these schools? There are only three possibilities. Either your sister is telling lies, or she is mad, or she is telling the truth. You know she doesn't tell lies and it is obvious that she is not mad. For the moment then and unless any further evidence turns up, we must assume that she is telling the truth."



Logic people, logic:


NPC corps are a problem why?

bottom line: players are avoiding pvp by being in these corps, correct?


so we nerf the NPC corps. Then what?

Thousands of small player corps that can be decced. Then what?

Thousands of small corps being recycled to avoid war-decs. Then what?

Change the war system (again). Then what?

Thousands of players either find a new way to circumvent the new system or they leave the game.

net result:

no increase in pvp
possible loss of subscriptions and resulting less interesting EvE universe.


The problem is not the NPC corps, the problem is your percieved idea of how other people should play this game.
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#268 - 2013-01-29 23:38:42 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Goonswarm's is 15%, player average is 10%.


Well I think 11% for high sec immunity is a pretty good taxation deal. 10% to be part of a pyramid scheme not so much.

forums.  serious business.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#269 - 2013-01-29 23:51:51 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Goonswarm's is 15%, player average is 10%.



Wait....Goonswarm is 15%?????

Wow, now why would a Corp that controls a significant portion of the Moon-Goo isk faucet charge their players 15% tax?
Are there really that many mindless drones out there? Shocked


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#270 - 2013-01-29 23:59:48 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Also that single players regularly generate more kills then NPC corps with a million+ players


OK, let me just clarify, since you still aren't getting it, despite the numerous hints. There are not a million players in the entire game of EVE Online, therefore, it is impossible that any NPC corp has a million players. Get it? There are likely only a few thousand in each NPC corp, and many of those are alts of "real" players, whose PVP stats on other characters are probably much better than on their NPC corp alt. That being because they use their NPC alt for things other than PVPing (or suicide scouting, cyno alting, logistics, and other combat SUPPORT), thus skewing the the statistics. Then, the only people earnestly contributing to the PVP statistics are noobs, who die at a disproportionately higher rate due the their skillpoint and experience disadvantage.

Your NPC corp member count is off by a factor of about 500. NPC alts don't tend to used be for direct ship combat. Noobs in NPC corps tend to die.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#271 - 2013-01-30 00:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Also that single players regularly generate more kills then NPC corps with a million+ players


OK, let me just clarify, since you still aren't getting it, despite the numerous hints. There are not a million players in the entire game of EVE Online, therefore, it is impossible that any NPC corp has a million players. Get it? There are likely only a few thousand in each NPC corp, and many of those are alts of "real" players, whose PVP stats on other characters are probably much better than on their NPC corp alt. That being because they use their NPC alt for things other than PVPing (or suicide scouting, cyno alting, logistics, and other combat SUPPORT), thus skewing the the statistics. Then, the only people earnestly contributing to the PVP statistics are noobs, who die at a disproportionately higher rate due the their skillpoint and experience disadvantage.

Your NPC corp member count is off by a factor of about 500. NPC alts don't tend to used be for direct ship combat. Noobs in NPC corps tend to die.

Help me out and complete this sentence.

"Also that single players regularly generate more kills then NPC corps with ________ active accounts".

It's gotta be high enough to justify not removing NPC corps on threat of the "carebear dollar" myth.
But low enough so that the level of PVP doesn't look too infintesimal.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#272 - 2013-01-30 00:28:29 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Goonswarm's is 15%, player average is 10%.


Well I think 11% for high sec immunity is a pretty good taxation deal.
Indeed, it's a powerful disincentive to join player-owned corps and engage in emergent content. That's why NPC corps need to go.
Ginger Barbarella
#273 - 2013-01-30 00:30:34 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
The simple solution to the High Sec problem of NPC Corps is pretty obvious to me, and implementing this will add content, give greater meaning to character racial choices, and overall improve the Storyline of EvE Online.

Make the NPC Corps an active part of the Faction War system. If you don't want to be an Economical or Political Faction War targetable asset, then you can always form your own corporation. Seriously, only the Training Academys and Schools should be neutral and protected. Everything else should rightfully be either a player owned corp, or a part of the Ruling Faction of their area of High Sec. Honestly, if you don't want to be involved in EvE Online just go find another game....

I know I can hear the trolls and carebears already lining up to trash this idea, but hey this is what happens in GD.

.


Oh, look... someone else who thinks everyone should be playing the way THEY think the game should be played. Awesome.

WTF do you care if people are in NPC corps? If that affects your game you clearly have no clue how EveO works. Go build your own game if you don't like it here.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Norm Tempesta
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#274 - 2013-01-30 00:40:55 UTC
The biggest reason for making the NPC corp obsolete seems to be that you can't wardec them. Join one yourself, they cant wardec you either. Now you are on even ground, haha, and I know that isn't going to fly.

I think NPC corps are needed and a spot where a lot of people in game feel comfortable, and would probably not play if forced into a player corp situation. I know a couple of people that log on, run missions for a while and log off. And this is what makes them happy. Who are we to force them into a situation where we can inflict our will onto them?

Sure some people use NPC corps to evade pvp while making iskies for their mains. Sure some people use NPC corps to enable anonymous scouting to set up targets. But we can all do that, so the playing field is already even.

And I truly believe the people who want to force players out of NPC corps and onto their playing field just want more targets. Mainly because I have seen the other posts that most of these professional forum posters put out.

The game does need a soft zone (high sec) and a refuge (npc corps) for certain types of players.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2013-01-30 00:44:16 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Goonswarm's is 15%, player average is 10%.


Well I think 11% for high sec immunity is a pretty good taxation deal.
Indeed, it's a powerful disincentive to join player-owned corps and engage in emergent content. That's why NPC corps need to go.

What makes you think these players would be involved in any more "emergent" content as individual entities or as parts of the likely reformations of the same groups of people doing the same things?
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#276 - 2013-01-30 00:54:59 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Help me out and complete this sentence.

"Also that single players regularly generate more kills then NPC corps with ________ active accounts".


You are the one trying to impose such an arbitrary criterion as justification for corporations to exist, not us. The funny thing is that a corporation like Red Frog would also not be justifiable by your criterion.

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Indeed, [11% NPC corp tax rate is} a powerful disincentive to join player-owned corps and engage in emergent content. That's why NPC corps need to go.


The disincentive to join player run corporations doesn't only lie in war dec immunity. Personally, I couldn't care less who was out to get me. I'm not going to give anyone permission to blow up my ship, but if NPC corps suddenly became valid targets for war decs, it would honestly have very little effect on my decision to be in one. I don't pay the 11% to avoid PVP. It would be far more accurate to say that I pay the 11% so that I can decide for myself who I shoot at, when, where, and why, as opposed to some corp director setting [expletive deleted] to blue and trying to force me to abide by that.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#277 - 2013-01-30 00:56:49 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Goonswarm's is 15%, player average is 10%.


Well I think 11% for high sec immunity is a pretty good taxation deal.
Indeed, it's a powerful disincentive to join player-owned corps and engage in emergent content. That's why NPC corps need to go.


your player corp isn't providing any incentive to join as your tax rate in uncompetitive.

so much for emergent content when your first reaction is CCP ship br0ak gaym. try harder.

forums.  serious business.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#278 - 2013-01-30 01:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:

Explain to me how getting rid of NPC corps, driving lots of carebears out of the game, improves the game!

Would DayZ be improved if there was a flag players could pick that would make them vulnerable to zombies only?
They just want to farm zombie loot all day. The devs should respect their valuable PvE dollar.
Of course not. It would actively diminish the game. So it is with NPC corps and EVE.


Didnt day or war Z or whatever get like a 10/100 on meta critic?

Overall remember when ccp moved lvl 4s into low sec only?
Yeah much good that did.

Removing noob corps immunity would result in reversal with in a month as ccp realizes and you that it fixed nothing and if anything made things worse.

Also

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:DUST_514_NPC_Corporations

MORE NPC CORPS

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2013-01-30 01:09:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Nova Fox wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Would DayZ be improved if there was a flag players could pick that would make them vulnerable to zombies only?
They just want to farm zombie loot all day. The devs should respect their valuable PvE dollar.
Of course not. It would actively diminish the game. So it is with NPC corps and EVE.


Didnt day or war Z or whatever get like a 10/100 on meta critic?
...

I think you are thinking of War Z. From what I recall Day Z got genuinely positive reviews.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#280 - 2013-01-30 01:30:36 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Help me out and complete this sentence.

"Also that single players regularly generate more kills then NPC corps with ________ active accounts".


You are the one trying to impose such an arbitrary criterion as justification for corporations to exist, not us.

Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Okay, after catching up on the thread, I see a particular thing repeated over and over again by NPC corp members:

"I'm not interested in PVP" . . .


State War Academy
Center for Advanced Studies
Republic Military School
Viziam
etc., etc., etc.

Try again.

I'm merely trying to get you to complete a sentence
You thought those linked you posted countered Floppie's statement.

Mayhaw Morgan wrote:

The disincentive to join player run corporations doesn't only lie in war dec immunity. Personally, I couldn't care less who was out to get me. I'm not going to give anyone permission to blow up my ship, but if NPC corps suddenly became valid targets for war decs, it would honestly have very little effect on my decision to be in one.
Glad to hear it. For NPC corp players who genuinely value being a lone agent and individual actor, and not merely take advantage of unbalanced mechanics, the changes I endorse would effect them little. Making NPC corp members individually deccable merely makes the advantages and disadvantages of solo vs. team play a true question of gamestyle instead of being heavily incentivized by game mechanics to head in one direction.