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miners and nullsec
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Rosenkranz
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2011-10-29 15:23:43 UTC
I dunno, but my Orca can tank a double or triple battleship spawn just fine and take them out with medium drones. My Hulk can do likewise (except with light drones but that takes a long time)

A Rorq would usually stay at a POS and provide kick'n mining boosts. I realize it's intended for use on grid with the miners but is just too exposed for that use. It's too easy to hot drop or cov-ops drop the Rorq and kill it before the fleet's defenses could kill off the intruders.
caliis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2011-10-30 18:03:32 UTC
well all this talk about null and low sec mining and its troubles. i remember a while back one of the best and oddly enough simple suggestions to making hulks and other barges a bit less of a juicy cow in the fields is to make strip miners work on ships. if you attack a hulk in null sec and they target you with 3 strip miners that should do quite a bit of damage in my opinion then hulks might be less of a target to some people. no improvement needed no new ship models, no arguing about new fitting. just make the strip miners do damage equal to the largest energy turret with equal DPS for the 3 min cycle. that would equate to a dangerous target. so 3 hulks would equate to a very dangerous group, seems logical to me they should do damage. also its not like strip miners can be used on anything else to make an imbalance to other ships. just putting that out there.

i always liked that idea.
Aurora Silvare
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-11-05 04:46:45 UTC
pooper stain wrote:
xSilk Roadx wrote:
pooper stain wrote:

I just don't get it can someone help me understand the logic?


The logic is you have wrongly interpreted how these ships are actually used in practise.



I don't believe I mis-interpreted how the ship was designed to be used. Looking at the description and abilities of the ship it was designed to jump 5 hulks into null, provide bonuses while compressing, clone jump those hulk pilots to you in null, mine, GTFO when done. That on paper was what the rorqual was designed to do.

Yes in reality it is NOT used that way at all. WHY? cause its Big expensive easy target and everybody knows that (except CCP who obviously has never used there own designs What?) In reality the rorqual sits in pos shields and just compresses ore....Why even have the ship then. Can't we just make a pos module to do the same thing (since in essence thats what the rorq is i guess).

And Silk your right I have never taken my rorq into null, Im too scared. I have hulk mined in null but only in NPC null in an dead end system that I knew was not frequently traveled. I hated the fact I had to use a small pos to dump the ore in and use the pos refinerery (losing 25% in the process, despite wasting my time training the skill only to realize it does not work on pos modules grrrrr) because I didn't have the means of getting the ore to a station. All in all the isk was crap. I have never tried it again since it just was not worth it. (I averaged about 30mil an hour in null sec, My lvl 4 mission runners blow that away and I afk those things). I guess I was disapointed in all the prep work, sneaking into the system, constantly watching the DS and local, then getting the ore back to a market. only to be flabergasted by the lack of isk.

Over all I am disappointed that CCP does not take the miner seriously.



OK, let me sum this up.

A. You failed to do the research on game mechanics and wasted time on skills you didn't need.

B. You tried to ninja mine in NPC 0.0 without having a well thought out plan to not only get in, but get the end product out.

C. You ran the numbers AFTER you spent all your time and effort on a flawed mining op.

So all this obviously adds up to any mining in 0.0 being unprofitable because YOU couldn't make any money at it.

Does that about sum it up?
Kale Eledar
Venerated Industries
#44 - 2011-11-05 05:00:40 UTC
Rorquals are most commonly kept in POSes, where their bonuses and ore grinding abilities are utilized behind the safety of the shields. They simply don't have enough defenses to sit in a belt and mine without significant protection. As long as you're fleeted up, the mining links from Orcas/Rorquals etc. will still boost your mining yield, without needing to risk these expensive ships. But I don't usually organize a mining op without some sort of protection. You have to practice safe nullsec standards with those slow ships.

-Kale

First come smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2011-11-05 14:36:35 UTC
pooper stain wrote:
well,
I see that CCP wanted it a group activity, Most real miners (not bots) like to mine in groups. group chat is fun for some of us nut jobs that like shooting rocks. But when it comes to Null sec, The risks are crazy compared to the reward. Is it not our PVP overlords that scream "risk vs reward"? What is risker then a 2 bil Rorqual with 5 100+mil hulks playing the sitting duck in a null sec roid patch. Yet 60mil isk/hour is pathetic rewards.

You mentioned Rorqual sitting at a POS? So now I have a ship with a Tractor beam bonus having to sit in a POS shield? So we have to use space for time and space for fueling, setup, and shutdown, just for 60mil isk and hour? I know ccp hates miners but wow!!

It looks like the reason CCP added high end minerals to loot drops was that null sec miners where not getting enough ore to the markets. Can't CCP improve on this and give miners back there function?

bull ****, mining ops in nullsec are safer than in hisec if you are not dumb
Pothead Alar
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2011-11-05 17:24:29 UTC
A few here and said mining is the bases of any economy, mine first, produce then sell. But why mine at all?
Every time I mission run or go ratting, I look at all the loot that I get and recycle it for the minerals there are. That is if I don't keep some for my own use. Sure it may not be in the same volume as mining, but as long as I have this to get minerals, then why mine at all. Why buy them when I can recycle everything in this game and get what people mine.
As far as I can tell the only thing you really need to mine is Ice, all ore why bother.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#47 - 2011-11-05 17:57:34 UTC
sheer volume of required minerals mr. forum alt Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Pothead Alar
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2011-11-05 18:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Pothead Alar
Yep, But I did say it's may not be in the same volume as mining
but then it dose depend on what your making. If you only make small things why mine. If you can rat for the drop, make ISK, and recycle for the ore. But if your making Cap ships, ok that need is far greater that recycling will get.
Pothead Alar
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2011-11-05 18:14:09 UTC
dbl post
Velicitia
XS Tech
#50 - 2011-11-05 18:31:12 UTC
Yep, I was simply confirming your suspicion about "why mine".

Even "small" things take **** tonnes of ore/minerals. Personally, I don't mine when trying to build anything in quantity.

If it's one ship (i.e. personal use), or because I'm strapped for cash and need to finish something, I'll hop in the exhumer for a few hours and mine veldspar like it's my job.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Pothead Alar
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2011-11-05 18:47:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Pothead Alar
I do mine sometimes, but only when I can't sit at the computer and pay attention to what is going on. it just to boring to do on a as your only job/ activity. Mining has it flaws.
My self I really don't make big items. Dabble with manuf. some but more for my own use than to make big ships.
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