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Scamming new players.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#81 - 2013-01-24 20:13:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Quote:
EVE is a harsh and unforgiving place... But you can't scam noobs


Why? If they have ISK and are careless, they should by able to learn a lesson. Cool



Eve is a harsh and unforgiving place...but CCP still needs to turn a profit.

Does that make it any clearer?

Mr Epeen Cool


Given EVE is still up and running after 10 years and growing for all that time I would say its working just fine.


Because they do their best to keep griefer asshats away from noobs.

Mr Epeen Cool
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-01-24 20:13:59 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
See what I mean, this person learned RL lessons from Eve. Are these the kind of people you want to live with in the RW. Nothing would get done as contracts were studied and looked over by lawyers, and as people worked as hard as possible not to create but to steal.


as if the real world isn't already like that?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jita iswhereIsit
Doomheim
#83 - 2013-01-24 20:17:25 UTC
Eve is real.
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#84 - 2013-01-24 20:19:54 UTC
Andski wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
See what I mean, this person learned RL lessons from Eve. Are these the kind of people you want to live with in the RW. Nothing would get done as contracts were studied and looked over by lawyers, and as people worked as hard as possible not to create but to steal.


as if the real world isn't already like that?


Yeah really, when is the last time you read fine print? In America companies are now fond of "arbitration agreements", in laymans terms you can't sue them in a court of law, the case would be dismissed with prejudice. While fools only mention the constitution when it comes to how many bullets their guns hold, companies have effectively dodged courts. Go read your cell phone contract, loans, lease etc. I wager this is the first you have heard of what that "arbitration agreement" means. Hell I had to sign one just to use USAA banks website (I am dumping them.)
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#85 - 2013-01-24 20:20:27 UTC
And don't you think this story can be a scam too? Are you that naive? HTFU.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#86 - 2013-01-24 20:20:35 UTC
Jita iswhereIsit wrote:
Eve is real.


It's as real as the girlfriend I just right clicked and saved with my other girlfriends.
Whitehound
#87 - 2013-01-24 20:27:43 UTC
I wonder where this thread is going to... This has to end in a lock.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Merouk Baas
#88 - 2013-01-24 20:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
IMO CCP needs to add a 6th Career Agent that covers the "cold harsh game" situations, including the various trade and contracts interfaces and warnings about how they can be tricked / scammed. Because what's unfair about the situation with newbies is that they're not stupid, they just don't know the interface, and it's not like EVE's interface is the gold standard of gaming UI's.

Have them go through "watch out you may be scammed" training and then nobody's going to feel bad about anyone losing a PLEX to the in-station trade interface tricks.
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#89 - 2013-01-24 20:32:55 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Make all the conditions you like but scamming noobs, ganking noobs, sucking noobs into BS gank the noob corps etc, are all total Bullcrap and anyone caught doing such should be permabanned.

The game will be much better off without them. AND the whole scamming plex thing has gotten out of control IMO. Sure, those of us who have been around don't pay attention to them so why are they there? The only person who will fall for one is a noob, otherwise they just contribute to the local spam overload in trade hubs.


I assure you that people many years into this game still do incredibly stupid things.

But this opinion you have about scamming, ganking, and so on, does it apply to only noobs? Are more experienced players fair game, in your opinion? If so, how would you define a noob? Keep in mind that this definition has to avoid being gamed in order to confer protection to more veteran players.

If, for instance, all accounts under a certain age or SP couldn't be scammed, I would use alts that fit that description to do all my business. In fact, I would probably use those alts to scam other people in a way that could be played off as ignorance.


Its easy to define a noob. A kid who wants to sell a PLEX his mom got him and who doesn't know how to contract it. That is by definition a noob, and someone that needs a bit of direction.

The trick here is not to try and enforce or investigate the matter after the fact, you are correct that is futile. Rather scamming noobs should be against policy, and DM's should go out acting like noobs and then ban the scammers that go after them.

Once the scammers are not sure if they are talking to a kid or a DM they will be less brazen. I guess they will just use alts. Is there a way to know if alt accounts are from the same comp? or a way to track the PLEX once the scammer has it?



If I put up a contract to buy a PLEX titled "PLEX NEEDED NOW...PAYING 1.4B!!" and then setup the contract so that it pays 1.1M ISK (even after CCP nerfed the pricing to prevent this, it still works) and a new player bites...am I guilty of scamming a new player? I wasn't aiming for a new player, but it's all the same.

And I have to agree with the above response that stated that the REAL scammer is the person who gets into the help channel and pretends to have just been scammed in order to solicit donations for his sad state.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
Merouk Baas
#90 - 2013-01-24 20:36:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
You are guilty of scamming a new player because it actually was a new player that you scammed. Not that being guilty of that should mean anything, like being "guilty" of engaging in PVP.

The problem with new players is they may not know the interface and/or haven't had a chance to read guides etc. to get over EVE's learning curve to even be able to identify a scam. It's actually CCP's fault, they coded the sucky interface AND the sparse tutorial program that doesn't talk much about the various dangers.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#91 - 2013-01-24 20:41:52 UTC
Google Voices wrote:
So, if I read this correctly, which is unlikely.....

New player gets a plex to sell, gets scammed by some player.....

Technically, the scammer stole $15 from a kid, I wonder if it's actionable as petty theft?


Cool




I hope you're trolling. By that way of thinking, every time someone blows up my ship I can take legal action against them. Derp

I feel sorry for the guy if(pretty big if)he's telling the truth, but scamming is part of the game. Also, it's not that hard to figure out that if you're putting a plex in a trade window, and the isk amount the other character has put in is ZERO, you probably shouldn't be expecting to get paid.

It's not CCP's or anyone's responsibility to make sure that people don't do stupid ****. By clicking accept on the trade window you are accepting whatever is in that exchange window. Same with the market, same with contracts.

If i were the OP, and I truly felt bad about what happened and new the person to be telling the truth, I'd just buy them a plex and show the other side of the EVE community to them.




I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Galadriel Vasquez
Project Omega Industries
Fraternity.
#92 - 2013-01-24 20:47:19 UTC
What's the guy called? I will help him.

I have tin foil hat trained to 5.
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#93 - 2013-01-24 20:52:59 UTC
Galadriel Vasquez wrote:
What's the guy called? I will help him.


I was trying to stealthily get his name to do just that (20 million or so) and didn't get a name, since you stated why you wanted his name you will get a ton of people just trying to get free isk. Moot point now.
Brandon Syne
Straxus Innovations
#94 - 2013-01-24 20:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Cura Ursus
Me too!


Rule #15 violation redacted.
This has been forwarded on for further review.
-- ISD Cura Ursus
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#95 - 2013-01-24 20:54:33 UTC
Rath Kelbore wrote:
Google Voices wrote:
So, if I read this correctly, which is unlikely.....

New player gets a plex to sell, gets scammed by some player.....

Technically, the scammer stole $15 from a kid, I wonder if it's actionable as petty theft?


Cool




I hope you're trolling. By that way of thinking, every time someone blows up my ship I can take legal action against them. Derp

I feel sorry for the guy if(pretty big if)he's telling the truth, but scamming is part of the game. Also, it's not that hard to figure out that if you're putting a plex in a trade window, and the isk amount the other character has put in is ZERO, you probably shouldn't be expecting to get paid.

It's not CCP's or anyone's responsibility to make sure that people don't do stupid ****. By clicking accept on the trade window you are accepting whatever is in that exchange window. Same with the market, same with contracts.

If i were the OP, and I truly felt bad about what happened and new the person to be telling the truth, I'd just buy them a plex and show the other side of the EVE community to them.


The kid left and his name got lost in the help scroll. He is one case and I feel bad about that, but giving him isk wont fix what is a problem.

PLEX is not like other in game items, it needs different management tools is all. An auction where ftp players can bid a certain amount of ISK for a block of gametime. They would put the ISK in escrow, and if someone wanted to buy ISK they could look at the market and accept one of the bids, probably the highest.

Bids more than 5 or 10% below the mean would not even have to show up. And that market window should be different from the regular market window to emphasize the fact that you are dealing with real money on a secure account page.

Whatever they decide to do there's no good reason for this sort of thing to continue.




Josef Djugashvilis
#96 - 2013-01-24 20:56:04 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:


Its easy to define a noob. A kid who wants to sell a PLEX his mom got him and who doesn't know how to contract it. That is by definition a noob, and someone that needs a bit of direction.



Okay, so anyone who is a kid that wants to sell a PLEX his mom got him is a noob. Is there anyone else that is a noob? How can you confirm that this person is a kid? Most kids online are instructed to not tell anyone they're a kid. And if kids are going to get special consideration, what's to prevent someone like me from pretending to be a kid?


Pretending? Smile

This is not a signature.
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#97 - 2013-01-24 21:00:04 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:


The kid left and his name got lost in the help scroll. He is one case and I feel bad about that, but giving him isk wont fix what is a problem.



I was going to give 20 million and suggest other people help out as well. It doesn't matter now. I'm a lefty, sometimes I give a homeless guy subway money. It won't fix homelessness but it sure helped the guy at the time. People talk about "cruel harsh world yadda yadda, but I can't tell you how much help I've gotten from people carebears and PVPers alike in this game. I know you all aren't as "cold, harsh and Machiavellian" as you all say.
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#98 - 2013-01-24 21:00:51 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

PLEX is not like other in game items, it needs different management tools is all.


I have found the flaw in your logic chain. The above statement is incorrect.

PLEX is an in-game virtual item...just like a 1MN Afterburner.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
Galadriel Vasquez
Project Omega Industries
Fraternity.
#99 - 2013-01-24 21:00:58 UTC
Mister S Burke wrote:
Galadriel Vasquez wrote:
What's the guy called? I will help him.


I was trying to stealthily get his name to do just that (20 million or so) and didn't get a name, since you stated why you wanted his name you will get a ton of people just trying to get free isk. Moot point now.


Well I can detect bullshits at 20 yards and didn't specify what the help was did I?

I have tin foil hat trained to 5.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#100 - 2013-01-24 21:04:39 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

PLEX is not like other in game items, it needs different management tools is all.


I have found the flaw in your logic chain. The above statement is incorrect.

PLEX is an in-game virtual item...just like a 1MN Afterburner.

KB

Would it affect your game negatively if PLEX were changed from an in game item to one that is managed from accounts? I think that would solve a lot of problems.