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Off grid boosting fix is like waiting for a miracle?
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Ginger Barbarella
#21 - 2013-01-24 17:00:31 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Well, if it isn't going to be fixed I might as well move a couple booster alts into my FW world. :) If you see any unknown Lokis, Tengu's, or Absolution's in the Amarr war zone say Hi! Twisted



They already plague low sec so much, I would have no idea which are yours. Pretty much you would be fool to pvp in low sec without your booster alt.


I've begun to think that lately. I've lost several 1v1's that I KNOW I should have breezed thru (only one admitted to using dual ASB).

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Fanatic Row
Neo T.E.C.H.
#22 - 2013-01-24 17:03:56 UTC
Chribba wrote:
If OGB goes away, shouldn't fleet bonuses also only apply when being on grid and not just in the same system? Surely the knowledge from a skill cannot have longer range than an active module? Lol

/c
Of course they should - if they don't, how have they removed OGB? Lol

Command ship sitting by itself "on grid", rest of fleet fighting at a gate. That's OGB in a nutshell. Get some coffee Blink
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#23 - 2013-01-24 17:04:53 UTC
Chribba wrote:
If OGB goes away, shouldn't fleet bonuses also only apply when being on grid and not just in the same system? Surely the knowledge from a skill cannot have longer range than an active module? Lol

/c

It is quite possible that to do away with OGB they will have to rework how all "boosts" work, which may neccessitate exactly what you suggest.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#24 - 2013-01-24 17:06:15 UTC
Othran wrote:
Cearain wrote:

EVE is becoming ALTSONLINE.


Eve became altsonline years ago matey.



We can agree to disagree on this. I used to be able to roam around solo and alts wouldn't ruin a substantial number of fights. Occassionally you would get the guy who brings in the falcon alt at the last minute or logistics alt etc. But you knew who these guys were - well because those ships needed to be on grid.

Now in pretty much every populated system you should expect your target to have an alt giving him a substantial advantage.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Fanatic Row
Neo T.E.C.H.
#25 - 2013-01-24 17:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Fanatic Row
Xuse Senna wrote:
Or I could argue that a Single pilot is controlling them all... Still Solo.

And anyway, We're talking about boosts, not ******* Falcon/Logi
You know who pilots those Falcon/Logi assisting those solo players? Roll

Defends booster alts sitting safely off grid.

Whines about ECM and Logi alts who are at least on the field.

Is a "true" PvPer.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#26 - 2013-01-24 17:08:46 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Chribba wrote:
If OGB goes away, shouldn't fleet bonuses also only apply when being on grid and not just in the same system? Surely the knowledge from a skill cannot have longer range than an active module? Lol

/c

It is quite possible that to do away with OGB they will have to rework how all "boosts" work, which may neccessitate exactly what you suggest.



It would be much preferable than the current situation. You want to boost a fleet? Be present at the battle.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#27 - 2013-01-24 17:09:12 UTC
OGB is even more likely to occur when the blob is in a system than it is when a small gang is in a system. People forget that the same mechanics work for everybody, and are usually more effective the more people you have. So the theory that OGB is the only thing keeping small gang combat alive is a complete myth.

People also tend to forget that a grid is a fairly large chunk of area, and the requirement to be on grid leaves a ton of wiggle room for a T3 set up for speed tanking.

But lets continue to overlook the obvious, it's entertaining. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#28 - 2013-01-24 17:10:40 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Chribba wrote:
If OGB goes away, shouldn't fleet bonuses also only apply when being on grid and not just in the same system? Surely the knowledge from a skill cannot have longer range than an active module? Lol

/c

It is quite possible that to do away with OGB they will have to rework how all "boosts" work, which may neccessitate exactly what you suggest.



It would be much preferable than the current situation. You want to boost a fleet? Be present at the battle.


I completely agree. I was just pointing out that Chribba may actually be unintentionally predicting the future. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-01-24 17:16:27 UTC
Posted in the thread about combat battlecruisers:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We eventually want links to be something you use on field

As I've stated repeatedly restricting links to be on-field only is a bad idea. Fleets can't all always be on the same grid at the same time. If I'm part of a small gang chasing potential targets around the interceptors are going to need the benefit of skirmish gang links, but because they have different warp speeds there's two options here, neither of which are attractive at all: either the interceptor warps after the target alone and loses the fleet bonus, or it warps along with the boosting ship - while that ensures the interceptor will have the skirmish bonuses when they land, you're cutting the ceptor down to less than a quarter of its original warp speed and so chances are you won't be able to catch up with a target that's warped off ahead of you.

There are other problems with forcing links to be on field including the fact that the only way to get the best industrial bonuses is to use a several billion isk ship that's completely immobile and defenseless for five minute blocks of time - forcing the bonuses to be on grid won't bring the ship on grid, it will simply mean that the only reason anyone will ever use the industrial core is for compression jobs.

There are ways to solve the problem of invincible OGB ships - forcing all of them to be on grid is not one of the more comprehensive solutions.


In addition there's the issue of "on-grid" not necessarily meaning "at risk". I can park my boosting ship 300km from the gang and nobody will be able to touch it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Spurty
#30 - 2013-01-24 17:17:21 UTC
Hmmm VISIBLE TITANS at gate camps .. lovely.
Hmmm VISIBLE T3s with no offensive mods ..lovely.
Hmmm people flying commandships other than the Sliepnir ..lovely.

So, the technical difficulty is to attach the fleet bonus mechanic to only those on the same grid as the bonus ship or are you aiming to apply it to all ships on the overview, in fleet?

I know you can be 10km away from someone, but they are on a different grid, so imagine the whining about bonus dropping when the grid gets messed up in a big fight lol.

I love the concept, I shudder at the implementation and fear the solution if you don't let the dev try new things out.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#31 - 2013-01-24 17:21:30 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Chribba wrote:
If OGB goes away, shouldn't fleet bonuses also only apply when being on grid and not just in the same system? Surely the knowledge from a skill cannot have longer range than an active module? Lol

/c

It is quite possible that to do away with OGB they will have to rework how all "boosts" work, which may neccessitate exactly what you suggest.



It would be much preferable than the current situation. You want to boost a fleet? Be present at the battle.


I completely agree. I was just pointing out that Chribba may actually be unintentionally predicting the future. Smile



Chribba knows

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-01-24 17:28:02 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Hmmm VISIBLE TITANS at gate camps .. lovely.

Titans for fleet boosting for gate camps is a common practice in lowsec?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-01-24 17:31:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Hmmm VISIBLE TITANS at gate camps .. lovely.

Titans for fleet boosting for gate camps is a common practice in lowsec?


You didn't know? Titans are as thick as rifters in lowsec.

:LOL:

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#34 - 2013-01-24 17:31:53 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Posted in the thread about combat battlecruisers:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We eventually want links to be something you use on field

As I've stated repeatedly restricting links to be on-field only is a bad idea. Fleets can't all always be on the same grid at the same time. If I'm part of a small gang chasing potential targets around the interceptors are going to need the benefit of skirmish gang links, but because they have different warp speeds there's two options here, neither of which are attractive at all: either the interceptor warps after the target alone and loses the fleet bonus, or it warps along with the boosting ship - while that ensures the interceptor will have the skirmish bonuses when they land, you're cutting the ceptor down to less than a quarter of its original warp speed and so chances are you won't be able to catch up with a target that's warped off ahead of you.

There are other problems with forcing links to be on field including the fact that the only way to get the best industrial bonuses is to use a several billion isk ship that's completely immobile and defenseless for five minute blocks of time - forcing the bonuses to be on grid won't bring the ship on grid, it will simply mean that the only reason anyone will ever use the industrial core is for compression jobs.

There are ways to solve the problem of invincible OGB ships - forcing all of them to be on grid is not one of the more comprehensive solutions.


In addition there's the issue of "on-grid" not necessarily meaning "at risk". I can park my boosting ship 300km from the gang and nobody will be able to touch it.

Which supports the point that on grid boosting by no means equals instant death.

For the argument above discussing interceptors, they completely over look the fact that whomever those interceptors are hunting are also likely to not have boosters with them in most cases... so it's pretty much a wash between both groups.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mary Won-Na
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-01-24 17:36:16 UTC
I play solo and OGB makes life harder for me. I have fewer targets since I avoid known OGB "soloers". I don't OGB and I solo and I'm more or less a casual player and I'm against running 2 clients. I think most players feel this way. Yeah you have the hardcores who must have every advantage, but they're a vocal minority.

For truly solo players, OGB is bad and it kills solo gameplay. People wanting to keep OGB are the same people who defended OP stuff in the past (like ECM damps and the other billion things that have been balanced over the years), claiming that it was the only thing keeping them competitive.

That's not what keeps solo play competitive. It's casual players who don't check forums every day for the latest info on ____ so they're easier to kill using whatever happens to be OP at the moment. That doesn't make your small gang gameplay any more/less viable, you're just increasing your range of blobby targets based on the number of people who don't OGB.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-01-24 17:38:51 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Which supports the point that on grid boosting by no means equals instant death.

For the argument above discussing interceptors, they completely over look the fact that whomever those interceptors are hunting are also likely to not have boosters with them in most cases... so it's pretty much a wash between both groups.

It supports the point that nerfing off-grid boosting changes less than they hope for and breaks more than they intend.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-01-24 17:40:16 UTC
Mary Won-Na wrote:
I play solo and OGB makes life harder for me. I have fewer targets since I avoid known OGB "soloers". I don't OGB and I solo and I'm more or less a casual player and I'm against running 2 clients. I think most players feel this way. Yeah you have the hardcores who must have every advantage, but they're a vocal minority.

For truly solo players, OGB is bad and it kills solo gameplay. People wanting to keep OGB are the same people who defended OP stuff in the past (like ECM damps and the other billion things that have been balanced over the years), claiming that it was the only thing keeping them competitive.

That's not what keeps solo play competitive. It's casual players who don't check forums every day for the latest info on ____ so they're easier to kill using whatever happens to be OP at the moment. That doesn't make your small gang gameplay any more/less viable, you're just increasing your range of blobby targets based on the number of people who don't OGB.


Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-01-24 17:42:03 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mary Won-Na wrote:
I play solo and OGB makes life harder for me. I have fewer targets since I avoid known OGB "soloers". I don't OGB and I solo and I'm more or less a casual player and I'm against running 2 clients. I think most players feel this way. Yeah you have the hardcores who must have every advantage, but they're a vocal minority.

For truly solo players, OGB is bad and it kills solo gameplay. People wanting to keep OGB are the same people who defended OP stuff in the past (like ECM damps and the other billion things that have been balanced over the years), claiming that it was the only thing keeping them competitive.

That's not what keeps solo play competitive. It's casual players who don't check forums every day for the latest info on ____ so they're easier to kill using whatever happens to be OP at the moment. That doesn't make your small gang gameplay any more/less viable, you're just increasing your range of blobby targets based on the number of people who don't OGB.


Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.


In a certain respect, it will - it will make it much easier for the truly solo players to decide whether or not to engage without having to DScan + hope constantly to see if the lone vagabond on the gate is really by himself.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Mary Won-Na
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-01-24 18:02:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mary Won-Na wrote:
I play solo and OGB makes life harder for me. I have fewer targets since I avoid known OGB "soloers". I don't OGB and I solo and I'm more or less a casual player and I'm against running 2 clients. I think most players feel this way. Yeah you have the hardcores who must have every advantage, but they're a vocal minority.

For truly solo players, OGB is bad and it kills solo gameplay. People wanting to keep OGB are the same people who defended OP stuff in the past (like ECM damps and the other billion things that have been balanced over the years), claiming that it was the only thing keeping them competitive.

That's not what keeps solo play competitive. It's casual players who don't check forums every day for the latest info on ____ so they're easier to kill using whatever happens to be OP at the moment. That doesn't make your small gang gameplay any more/less viable, you're just increasing your range of blobby targets based on the number of people who don't OGB.


Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.


I don't think boosting while sitting 400km away is kosher either. Boosting ships should be within target range. This would give the added benefit of harder to dual-box, which is always good in my book.

But hey, this is eve, if you want to dual-box and say you're solo, go right ahead. Just don't complain about "solo" gameplay dying out because people refuse to "1v1" you.
Mildew Wolf
#40 - 2013-01-24 18:07:40 UTC
imo they should at least add boosters to killmail or battle report or whatever they are called now

it would be a nice reference for intel and end the mystery of "true solo" )))