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Invention & T2 BPOs - Will this ever change?

Author
Gank'aho
One within we are
#101 - 2011-10-10 23:32:05 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Gank'aho wrote:
Posting to confirm OP is an idiot.
Also, eve isn't fair, T2BPO's don't give an advantage, and newbs cry.Lol
Carry on.

Long story short, if you want the "alleged" advantage of T2BPO's buy them, they only cost billions.


Posting to confirm you have no idea what your talking about.

Actually I know exactly what im talking about, everything I said was true...
Eve is not far, T2BPO's don't give an advantage, and Newbies DO cry....better luck next time.
Ohh and OP is an idiot
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#102 - 2011-10-10 23:42:17 UTC
Gank'aho wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Gank'aho wrote:
Posting to confirm OP is an idiot.
Also, eve isn't fair, T2BPO's don't give an advantage, and newbs cry.Lol
Carry on.

Long story short, if you want the "alleged" advantage of T2BPO's buy them, they only cost billions.


Posting to confirm you have no idea what your talking about.

Actually I know exactly what im talking about, everything I said was true...
Eve is not far, T2BPO's don't give an advantage, and Newbies DO cry....better luck next time.
Ohh and OP is an idiot


last time i checked it nigh impossible to make any kind of profit on the t2 sabre market when inventing BPC's. short of FINDING the materials yourself.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Gank'aho
One within we are
#103 - 2011-10-10 23:50:33 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Gank'aho wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Gank'aho wrote:
Posting to confirm OP is an idiot.
Also, eve isn't fair, T2BPO's don't give an advantage, and newbs cry.Lol
Carry on.

Long story short, if you want the "alleged" advantage of T2BPO's buy them, they only cost billions.


Posting to confirm you have no idea what your talking about.

Actually I know exactly what im talking about, everything I said was true...
Eve is not far, T2BPO's don't give an advantage, and Newbies DO cry....better luck next time.
Ohh and OP is an idiot


last time i checked it nigh impossible to make any kind of profit on the t2 sabre market when inventing BPC's. short of FINDING the materials yourself.

It is also nigh impossible to make any kind of profit on the t2 sabre market when using T2 BPO's...game, set, match.
EVE Stig
Doomheim
#104 - 2011-10-11 00:13:53 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Hellenna Cain wrote:
Regardless if T2 BPO's are an advantage or not. The should be removed.


  • if It is an advantage, it should be removed to balance the game.


  • If it is not an advantage and invention is better, then tech 2 BPO's are not needed and will not be missed.


I would favor change them to a max run bpc with the same ME and PE to ensure enough training time for the untrained to catch up.


Im game. If everyone else has to work to get their T2 Bpcs, the current holders of T2 BPOs should too. Its pretty unfair that T2 researchers are handling the only chance based function (couldnt think of a better word) IN THE GAME (where it applies to manufacturing etc) when there are people with the BPOs to build those items and dont have to deal with stupid chances.

Better yet, make it so the BPOs have a chance to build the item based on the chance to not build the item in question.

I mean seriously, think of how that whole fun chance based thing would be if it wasnt just invention that had it. If all industrial jobs had it. How fun would it be if all jobs to build a ship had a chance to fail and consume the resources without getting anything back. Or for that matter, if mining lasers had a chance to fail at the end of the cycle. Or weapons. Wouldnt THAT be fun?


like this, it sounds like fun

"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#105 - 2011-10-11 00:25:18 UTC
Gank'aho wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Gank'aho wrote:
Posting to confirm OP is an idiot.
Also, eve isn't fair, T2BPO's don't give an advantage, and newbs cry.Lol
Carry on.

Long story short, if you want the "alleged" advantage of T2BPO's buy them, they only cost billions.


Posting to confirm you have no idea what your talking about.

Actually I know exactly what im talking about, everything I said was true...
Eve is not far, T2BPO's don't give an advantage, and Newbies DO cry....better luck next time.
Ohh and OP is an idiot

I'm neither a newbie nor an idiot, nice trolling.

Are you hiding behind that char, or is that really how long you've been playing?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#106 - 2011-10-11 00:52:07 UTC
I like EVE Stig's swagger.
We should do that.
There comes a point when yer fighting against the flow that you say screw it and let yourself be washed away. Like Mittens an the other CSM Goon. They battled against CCP directly, now theyre trying to change EVE the fun way.

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Xtraneous
Sam's Space Guys
#107 - 2011-10-11 01:03:38 UTC
I suspect this whole thread is a troll, but i'll ask the OP - If you believe that T2 BPOs offer an advantage over invention why don't you work towards purchasing some? Anyone can buy T2 BPOs, there's always a few available in contracts.

It was mentioned there are approx 10,000 T2 BPOs floating around, I suspect this number is alot higher than the total of Supercap BPOs owned by players. And just like supercap BPOs anyone can purchase T2 BPOs if you feel that's the best way to invest your isk.

Infact there's a Light Ion Blaster II BPO (ME 80) available right now on contracts for the price of 20Bil why hasn't it been sold?

Is it because the return on capital is so low?
Is it because any patch your investment could become near worthless if CCP nerfs your item?
Is it because that build slot could build vastly more profitable items?

The only reason I see for owning T2 BPOs is because they have a good isk/click ratio. I do infact have T2 BPOs, and I build on 1mth cycles. I could make far more isk producing alot of other items and inventing whatever is most profitable but that dosen't fit with the time I have to play Eve. I started playing after invention and worked hard to earn my T2 prints.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#108 - 2011-10-11 01:13:12 UTC
It is about time all the circle jerk BPO holders got their hands burnt after playing pass the overpriced hot potato for so long.

As the lovely troll a few posts above me pointed out, Eve is not fair. CCP should dump on the BPO holders and just remove them then sort out invention efficiency to properly re-balance "cost" of t2 ships.

I agree with vanity items, heck even unique ships that are uber because they can/will get blown up when used, but unique T2 BPOs that account for 1/3 of all T2 ship production [Source: CCP Dr.Egghead]..... no, get out.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#109 - 2011-10-11 01:18:59 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:

As the lovely troll a few posts above me pointed out,


lol it ceases being a troll when its a good point thats in line with the conversation at hand doesnt it?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Schmacos tryne
Norsk Testosteron
#110 - 2011-10-11 02:10:35 UTC
Fact of the matter is:

Everyone(!) here will argue to their own benefit.


For someone new to the game, understandably, they feel they should get a fair shot at getting their hands on these items as the dinasaurs or business mongooses OR would stop complaining if there was no (Functional) T2 BPO out there.

If someone are in possession of any T2 BPOs they will claim T2 BPOs hardly exist at all and they will at the same time lie about owning one while making any retorical argumentation available to torpedo anyone who argues for removal or reimplementation of T2 BPOs. We all understand that realisation of either of these two posibilitis would result in a major loss to these individuals. You are allowed to disagree but stuff the math up your arses, you're not fooling anyone.


Bottom line:

There is no real reason why T2 BPOs should be allowed to remain in game in there present form. Render them inert so people can keep the as collectables or some such OR re-introduced T2 BPOs in some form of another. This will form an equal market and, after all, getting new people to join in on the Eve experience without feeing they are going agains an unbeatable elite is what matters no?


Stay sharp,T2 BPOs are on their way (out)

(flunk out the last word... or not... whichever suits you).
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#111 - 2011-10-11 02:45:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Schmacos tryne wrote:
Fact of the matter is:

Everyone(!) here will argue to their own benefit.


For someone new to the game, understandably, they feel they should get a fair shot at getting their hands on these items as the dinasaurs or business mongooses OR would stop complaining if there was no (Functional) T2 BPO out there.

If someone are in possession of any T2 BPOs they will claim T2 BPOs hardly exist at all and they will at the same time lie about owning one while making any retorical argumentation available to torpedo anyone who argues for removal or reimplementation of T2 BPOs. We all understand that realisation of either of these two posibilitis would result in a major loss to these individuals. You are allowed to disagree but stuff the math up your arses, you're not fooling anyone.


Bottom line:

There is no real reason why T2 BPOs should be allowed to remain in game in there present form. Render them inert so people can keep the as collectables or some such OR re-introduced T2 BPOs in some form of another. This will form an equal market and, after all, getting new people to join in on the Eve experience without feeing they are going agains an unbeatable elite is what matters no?


Stay sharp,T2 BPOs are on their way (out)

(flunk out the last word... or not... whichever suits you).


They eventually WOULD be all gone wouldnt they? They get blown up etc, you cant get a new one, so eventually, theyre all gone get it at some point arent they?

so if you want them out of the game, hunt for people with them and kill them

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Schmacos tryne
Norsk Testosteron
#112 - 2011-10-11 03:25:53 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Schmacos tryne wrote:
Fact of the matter is:

Facts



Dribble



Sight, it's like wankink off with a cheese grater....

Your reasoning is nothing else then crap and puts you into the secret T2 BPO owner category.

We'll all die of old age too eventually. No reason why the world woudn't benefit if some of us should be remeved in some way sooner rather then later.

If you for a second think you'll find a lot of 50bill+ BPO carrying Dhally Whallies flying around for you to wack at your conveniance, think again.

Get this into your narrow forhead: There is NO reason not to deal with T2 BPOs one way or another as pointed out in my previous post.

Just to **** everybody off, CCP should add them to the NEX store Idea
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#113 - 2011-10-11 03:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Schmacos tryne wrote:


Sight, it's like wankink off with a cheese grater....

Your reasoning is nothing else then crap and puts you into the secret T2 BPO owner category.


lol what a compliment, you pretending I have T2 BPOs lol
yeah, no, even on my main, Ive never had ONE BILLION much less multiples of them

I was actually pretty pissed off when I realized there is effectively a hard ceiling on production in that you cant GET T2 BPOs anymore.

Then I realized the WHY of it. They need to do this in more games and yes, they need to remove the BPOs as well.

Schmacos tryne wrote:


Just to **** everybody off, CCP should add them to the NEX store Idea


There was a guy talking about putting T3 **** in there already lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2011-10-11 05:50:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowsword
Hellenna Cain wrote:
The only players that object to removing T2 BPOs are the ones that have them.

And they have the audacity to say that invention is better.


I don't have one, I don't want them removed.


And I have yet to see any motive here other than envy and jealousness to support their removal.


By the way, did you know that some T2 BPOs are real cheap? I'm sure you can find something like a T2 micro-smartbomb BPO pour less than 500M, or a Wasp II BPO for les than 4B. Saying you can't obtain a T2 BPO is patently false.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#115 - 2011-10-11 07:07:22 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Come on, it would be fair for you to say "the only ones that was T2 BPOS removed are the ones that don't have them", but theres no needto go saying people dont understand manufacturing
No, it would not be fair, because that would be to make the same mistake as Hellenna did. So instead, I did something much fairer: I introduced an actual reason why people want them removed (and one that is quite probably the closest we can come to the truth).
Quote:
I think this thread has shown that the matter is fairly heavily split with relatively good arguments both for and against.
If by “fairly split” you mean “no useful arguments for a removal” and “a bunch of arguments against” then yes.
Ruby Hotrod
Doomheim
#116 - 2011-10-11 13:06:32 UTC
BPO's should have been removed a long time ago. The old lottery style before R+D changed was a farce anyway, it was strange how some of the big name alliances won most of them and they are now the ones complaining that it is not more profitable than a BPC Lol

Also had a lot of dodgy dev dealing back then too.
Schmacos tryne
Norsk Testosteron
#117 - 2011-10-11 21:24:19 UTC
Shadowsword wrote:
Hellenna Cain wrote:
The only players that object to removing T2 BPOs are the ones that have them.

And they have the audacity to say that invention is better.


I don't have one, I don't want them removed.

And I have yet to see any motive here other than envy and jealousness to support their removal.


By the way, did you know that some T2 BPOs are real cheap? I'm sure you can find something like a T2 micro-smartbomb BPO pour less than 500M, or a Wasp II BPO for les than 4B. Saying you can't obtain a T2 BPO is patently false.


Then why on earth should you care?
Schmacos tryne
Norsk Testosteron
#118 - 2011-10-11 21:40:42 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:

I was actually pretty pissed off when I realized there is effectively a hard ceiling on production in that you cant GET T2 BPOs anymore.

Then I realized the WHY of it. They need to do this in more games and yes, they need to remove the BPOs as well.


I'm not pissed but I *DO* get the fact that the owners of T2 BPO's would take a pretty hard hit if they get removed/reintroduced.

That being said, there is no need to remove them, just render them inert (can't be used, just as collectables for those who fancy these things).

This way, Invention/BPC's will be unaffected and still a valiable game-occupation.

The other way around, if they got re-introduced, why not let invention be the way to obtain new T2 BPOs (a marginal chance atleast)? This way Invention would be a very lucrative business which would result in either Failure, a BPC or in extreemly rare cases a BPO.


I guess I'm dim, but I still haven't seen a single good argument why they shouldn't be dealt with other than the people arguing for dealing with them is pittifull envious penisheads...

I guess the same could have been said about the people arguing for removal of learning skills and see how much better the game got after removing them... (Yeah the last part was ironic but screw it you (should) get my point since most people was pro removal of them).
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2011-10-11 21:56:48 UTC
Quote:
I've done the math on a number of T2 items, and some of them, no matter how much you throw into invention, you could never even produce cheap enough to make profit over existing sell orders, you'd actually be losing alot of ISK. Sure you might be lucky enough to avoid that market, and for me, I currently do, so can make a decent amount, but that doesnt change the experience I gained previously from attempting profitable T2 production.


Have you factored in they may be getting other materials (Moon goo for example) cheaper than you?

Also what makes you think you have the RIGHT to be able to competitively produce everything? You don't. Its like moaning that you can't make super-caps in empire. Tough, learn to live with it and move into a profitable area.

Most likely OP spent a load of money getting ready to produce something without doing the research first and is now butt-hurt ;)

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more)