Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Short Version:
Remove Faction Navy. Keep Concord. Allow outlaws to move in highsec. Crimewatch vigilante gangs can pew with them, without NPCs interfering. Everyone wins.

Ever since Crimewatch 2.0, much has been made of 'giving highsec dwellers the tools to fight crime'.
And as far as that goes, I don't have a problem with it. Player interaction is certainly better than NPC/PVE police.

But layering 'player-enforced' crime control on top of an already rigorous NPC crime control regime? It only makes highsec more exciting for the criminals and vigilantes. Meanwhile, the average missionrunning/mining/hauling ISK grinder is safer and more insulated than ever.

Now, hints are occasionally dropped from CCP that Concord may be nerfed in the future. And I'd like to see that - perhaps rolling response times back to what they were back in 2008. But I don't believe it.

Concord has steadily ramped up in power over the last several years, as recently as last spring. I've never once seen a change in the other direction...and I don't believe I will.

However......CCP could make a minor change to NPC law enforcement. - mutually beneficial to outlaws and highsec vigilantes alike.

Remove the Faction Navy.

What would this mean?
Outlaws could move in highsec without NPC interference.

Of course, they are still outlaws - and ANY individual (or groups) could engage them at will. (Kind of like a permanent suspect status)

AAND....the outlaws could actually fight with the vigilantes without NPC police coming along and ending the fight prematurely.

As Faction Police are currently implemented, there really isn't any way to have a fight between an outlaw and a vigilante.
Any fight that lasts more than 15 seconds or so - NPCs crash the party. This means that outlaws are almost NEVER in a position to be engaged by anyone in highsec. As a result, outlaws are almost exclusively used for suicide ganking juicy targets in highsec.

(And ganking isn't really 'a fight'. Nor is blowing up a -10 gank-fit alt that is hopelessly locked down by NPCs or Concord)

The only practical effect of the NPC police is to keep the player base separated - which prevents actual fights from ever occurring. Pirates stay in low sec, because their fights in highsec are only allowed to last about 15-20 seconds. Highsec vigilantes are too scared to venture into lowsec to fight with organized pirates on a level playing field.

Should the Faction Police be removed - or seriously dialed back, I see lots more targets for highsec vigilantes, as plenty of -10 pirates that would be willing to risk getting dogpiled - just to have some fights and excitement.

***And YES, Solstice Project, before you chime in, I know you enjoy blazing around in a highsec in a dessie, blapping frigates that engage you before faction police show up - or otherwise ganking pods and shuttles. But I think it would be a significant improvement to the game if outlaws could risk larger ships in highsec - and have sustained fights without silly NPCs showing up and jamming/scramming/webbing/shooting them - basically rendering the outlaw helpless and making the fight pointless.

Without NPCs, Vigilantes would still have all of the advantages. They choose when to engage and benefit from numbers. (While outlaws can't even be RR'd - so an outlaw 'fleet' would be quite limited in capabilities)

And outlaws would still be Concorded if they engaged any targets illegally....

So, who loses......if NPC police are turfed???
Vigilantes get more targets coming to them - with highsec advantages. Outlaws get to fly more than frigates in highsec and get more fights.

So how about it CCP? Crimewatch 2.0 is a thing. Suspect flag is a thing, and highsec dwellers want to kick some ass. Lets give them some RED targets and take down some of these pointless barriers to player interaction.

I have never disagreed with anything Herr Wilkus has ever said and I'm not going to start now.

ITT: HighSec Suicide Ganker doesn't like NPCs stopping him from moving around after getting a new ship.

I like it how it is, the Navy do their part in keeping their space safe and we get to help them out if we see criminals.

Navy NPCs really don't do anything other than dissuade -10s from mining in highsec or legally fighting opponents, hth

Hopefully they read and realize I'm not talking about Concord.

All Faction Police really do is force -10 player to do is:

A) stay in lowsec.
B) be a suicide gank alt.
C) Be Solstice Project.

Lets simplify things, and remove those needless NPCs and create a fourth option.

D) can traverse highsec - but risk fighting other players at a severe disadvantage.

It would be kind of cool to see Red-flagged outlaw Battlecruisers or even Battleships in the less populated areas of highsec.
Hanging out in trade hubs would be essentially suicide for them, of course....but W/E.

Highsec 'carebear' Vigilantes would jump at the chance to try to take them down without running the risk of getting slaughtered at a gate camp while trying to slip into lowsec.

Even if an outlaw WANTED to duel a vigilante in highsec - he just can't because NPCs ruin the fight.

Sure, that's why there are so many tears and cries for sec status tags.

Not everyone has access to tripple 1.8m BS 0.0 rats ;)

Outlaws can only fire at the pilots shooting them, not their fleetmates, so unless the vigilante group is silly enough to have everyone potshot everyone else, then while the vigilante fleet is focusing on the pirates 1 at a time (killing them very quickly), the members of the pirate "fleet" can only shoot at the one vigilante fleetmameber who has them tackled.

So, while I think your idea is probably a good one, it's not going to result in any sort of fight. It's just going to be the occasional gank of an outlaw + business as usual.

Yes, people found a way to take advantage of the fact that NPCs don't pod.

It's still not trivial and if more people could be arsed to :effort:, CCP would have plugged that hole by now.

Once it becomes common enough, you can be sure that CCPs response will not be to allow outlaws into hi-sec so they can sit and goat newbies into attacking them and their alts.

If what you want is really hi-sec fights with vigilantes, go get yourself a suspect flag, it's easy enough.

Crimewatch came with a lot of sec buffs for low-sec PvP. If you are consistently finding yourself at -10, I am sorry, you are not in it for the ~gudfites~.

No.
They need to stay.

No point in discussing.

Yeah, that was my point. Even if, say, 6 Pirates decided to do a thunder run through highsec......

Game mechanics are such that they couldn't really do much to help each other, except give moral support. Vigilantes still have all the advantages. I'm trying to placate highsec carebears that are like OMG PIRATEZ IN HIGHSEC??? I DONT WANNA DIE!!!!

Perhaps some actual lowsec dwelling -10 pirates could chime in.

If Faction Police NPCs were done away with, would it
A) completely break highsec?
or B) would they take a chance running ships larger than frigates through highsec just for a thrill?

Would we see -10 red flagged Harbis in the belts, pirate Vexors and Thoraxes smacktalking in local encouraging some Crimewatch 2.0 justice???