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Propose : let blue and NIP null be not profitable.

First post
Author
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-01-24 12:13:47 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Read all connected topics ... , check your accounts in HBC/CFC :
This is reset just closing access to JB - sadly , we where fighting goon roams in Stain.
No major engagements, no one is allowed to touch SOV, Poses etc.
No hunting for capitals.
Two biggest coalitions will roam each other with a rupture gangs.
"BLUE NIP"


Edit
I didn't noticed that you are from CFC.
I ask seriously - what you think about a system that will force you to attack someone , because if you dont - your nullsec operations will be in danger?

I'm not say - in a way i described , but in this sense.

If you have a problem with that, your should be getting onto your CEO to sort it out. It's not up to CCP to fix your corp/alliance/coalition.
Anthar Thebess
#22 - 2013-01-24 12:14:28 UTC
Nope.
You didn't get my idea.

I only suggested, that if your "neighbour" is more active than you he can "steal" your source of income.
From a point of reducing the number of rats in your system to a point where you cannot do anything on planets and your moon mining POS are going to stop.

This will rise tensions to a point that no big blue nip will be possible.

Where did i stated that by "ratting" you will get SOV, or win PVP?

I only said that the only way to keep your income stable - is to raid your neighbours as often and as hard as possible.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2013-01-24 12:19:05 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Read all connected topics ... , check your accounts in HBC/CFC :
This is reset just closing access to JB - sadly , we where fighting goon roams in Stain.
No major engagements, no one is allowed to touch SOV, Poses etc.
No hunting for capitals.
Two biggest coalitions will roam each other with a rupture gangs.
"BLUE NIP"


Edit
I didn't noticed that you are from CFC.
I ask seriously - what you think about a system that will force you to attack someone , because if you dont - your nullsec operations will be in danger?

I'm not say - in a way i described , but in this sense.



I say that my alliance is tiny and would get utterly kerbstomped in any such situation. We're ~1500 strong, and share deklein with goonswarm. How do you see your idea ending for us?


I also ask if you have ever engaged in a large scale SOV war. I haven't been involved in anything on the level of any potential HBC vs CFC war, but I can tell you that sov grinding (In subcaps, to avoid the inevitable hundreds of capitals on each side dying in a horrible fire thing that no FC wants on thier CV) isn't a lot of fun, and the thought of spending months or even years doing it is not a cheerful one.
Anthar Thebess
#24 - 2013-01-24 12:25:13 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:


I'm not say - in a way i described , but in this sense.

If you have a problem with that, your should be getting onto your CEO to sort it out. It's not up to CCP to fix your corp/alliance/coalition.[/quote]

What to fix?
We have whole HBC around us? :D
In short term this is funny, but in long term this will kill EVE.
Eve is different from the most of MMO.
In eve when you die ... you loose every thing! - and this is the point of playing this game.
But now - in most of the null, the only thing you get to do is get "blued" - nothing is at stake , ship ... i kill some rats ( no one will hunt me) , i place some towers ( no one will touch them) ... and i buy 100 new t1 cruisers ... and i go for the PVP! - but i have to check calendar where we going to meet our friends.
For me this is nonsense.

The EVE IS REAL ... becomes EVE IS PRETENDED ... do you like it to become next WOW?
Why not start petitioning CCP -" if i loose my ship , i want to re spawn in the same one in the nearest station!"



Anthar Thebess
#25 - 2013-01-24 12:35:42 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Read all connected topics ... , check your accounts in HBC/CFC :
This is reset just closing access to JB - sadly , we where fighting goon roams in Stain.
No major engagements, no one is allowed to touch SOV, Poses etc.
No hunting for capitals.
Two biggest coalitions will roam each other with a rupture gangs.
"BLUE NIP"


Edit
I didn't noticed that you are from CFC.
I ask seriously - what you think about a system that will force you to attack someone , because if you dont - your nullsec operations will be in danger?

I'm not say - in a way i described , but in this sense.



I say that my alliance is tiny and would get utterly kerbstomped in any such situation. We're ~1500 strong, and share deklein with goonswarm. How do you see your idea ending for us?


I also ask if you have ever engaged in a large scale SOV war. I haven't been involved in anything on the level of any potential HBC vs CFC war, but I can tell you that sov grinding (In subcaps, to avoid the inevitable hundreds of capitals on each side dying in a horrible fire thing that no FC wants on thier CV) isn't a lot of fun, and the thought of spending months or even years doing it is not a cheerful one.

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#26 - 2013-01-24 12:39:49 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Nope.
You didn't get my idea.

I only suggested, that if your "neighbour" is more active than you he can "steal" your source of income.
From a point of reducing the number of rats in your system to a point where you cannot do anything on planets and your moon mining POS are going to stop.

This will rise tensions to a point that no big blue nip will be possible.

Where did i stated that by "ratting" you will get SOV, or win PVP?

I only said that the only way to keep your income stable - is to raid your neighbours as often and as hard as possible.


beeing able to steal income from your neighbour maybe a good idea. but not by beeing actively ratting in your own region.
it should be possible to really raid other space. so you go out on a roam and come home with some form of loot, which is the product of somebody elses labour.

maybe standings should not be something that is fixed. how about they evolve on their own. as long as two alliances do not shoot each other, standings gradual increase to the point of +5. everytime you kill one of the other ships, standings recieve an impact similar to security standing, to the point of -10.
this would also devaluate local intel to some degree.
could be coupled with a lot of other funny things like, as long as two SOV-holding alliances have a derived standing of less then 0 (neutral) their are automatically at war with each other in high and low sec.
should something like this be implemented, the size of an alliance probably needs a hard cap or otherwise we would see the rise of one big alliance to get the same situation as it is now.
Anthar Thebess
#27 - 2013-01-24 12:46:59 UTC
Standings are better in this way as they are now.
Rats - they are simply one of the things that can be used into calculation - why - check eve ratting map - every body rat ;)
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#28 - 2013-01-24 12:52:05 UTC
The best thing ccp could do to promote fighting is make sov mechanics not a terrible grind that everyone hates.
Anthar Thebess
#29 - 2013-01-24 12:58:29 UTC
Well but this will not motivate any one to fight.
What this will change to "grate blue null?" - nothing as you get more isk from null while you don't fight.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#30 - 2013-01-24 13:02:39 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Standings are better in this way as they are now.
Rats - they are simply one of the things that can be used into calculation - why - check eve ratting map - every body rat ;)


well, dynamic standings seem to be a better stimulus for fights then simply counting killed rats per day. there is just more back-stabbing involved. people love to back stab.

there is the possibility to tie in a multitude of things into those standings, e.g. mentioned war dec for free. introducing some spies into a coalition and disrupting their standings could cause some major confusion and dmg. together with some incentives to assault your light blue "friends"...
though this quick idea is not fleshed out by any means...
Anthar Thebess
#31 - 2013-01-24 13:09:03 UTC
Spies have other jobs ;)
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#32 - 2013-01-24 13:15:58 UTC
and beeing able to do new stuff additionally is of course nothing we would ever want from a game.
i guess we should keep 0.0 as it is then.

;)
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-01-24 16:45:07 UTC
Just to clarify;
I am not against new stuff for Nullsec. I am for it. Industry, anomolies, everything.
I am against forcing people to PvP to PvE, to PvP, to PvE...

It's a sand box. The more limitations and requirements in place, the more boring and stale the game will become. You asked if we wanted EvE to become the next WoW. I sure as hell don't, but if you put stuff like your suggestion in, it will be taking the first steps to become that.

The big blue donut is there because the sandbox is what you make it. CCP would call them Instigators, (we may call them Overlords,) but what they are is the face and voice of their Empire. It is they who have made this circle of cuddles and hand-holding(tm) because they understood that to hold onto what you have, you need friends. And who better than the very people who are the only ones who can unseat you?

That's is not to say thats it's a simple thing to micro manage tens of thousands or pilots across dozens of corporations in multiple alliances as part of one coalition. The recent HBC/CFC issues are testament to that. They have conqoured all in their path. None stand before them. The problem the now face is that the only serious enemies they have left are each other.

I have no experience or direct knowledge of exactly what it takes to control a sov empire. But this is something thats been rolling around my noggin for a while and I want to put it out there so people with the knowledge I lack can decide if it holds water or not.

It is my opinon that the only way to break the donut is to threaten the whole of it simultaneously. The coalitions can throw so much at their targets that they simply overrun any opposition with little resistance. The answer could well be to give them so many targets, that they cannot co-ordinate their defence. They probably would not be able to fight a war on many fronts, let alone give support to their allies.

A compromise to encourage less blue and more red could be found in the sov mechanics. Think of the principle of diminishing returns. (We know CCP like this concept, so it stands a good chance of being implemented.) The larger an Alliances domain, the more it requires to maintain. Combine this with unused space also becoming ever more costly to maintain, it would make holding vast amounts of unused space both draining and inefficient. If these same principals could be combined with the taking and holding of soverinty, making it easier to take a system owned by a massive alliance with a hige empire than by a small one with a few systems under its belt, could make a big difference.

EXAMPLE wrote:
TEST holds huge tracts of the Fountain, Delve and Querious and they have over 10,000 pilots at their disposal. What I suggest would make it much easier for a small alliance, with maybe a couple of hundred pilots with no empire to call their own, to take systems from TEST. In return, to reclaim their former space, TEST would have to commit much more to the fight, both in resources and manpower, than the smaller interlopers.
It would also take much more effort for TEST to maintain their empire than the small alliance who took those few systems from them.


TL:DR Make it easier for the little guy to get his foot on the ladder and then you will stir up the sov space pot. That will break the big blue donut.
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