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EVE's summer expansion better focus on sovereignty
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Gianna Thirostin

Doomheim

Likes received: 19

#81 - 2013-01-23 18:25:54 UTC

No More Heroes wrote:

Docter Daniel Jackson wrote:

I know this is a noobie thing to ask, but what u you get from 0.0 space anyways? other then planets moons and belts.

anything worth fighting over?

Not really. Technetium was the conflict driver, so we monopolized and cartelled it. CCP nerfed it, its still pretty good but not enough for someone to invade us over.

Player generated content causing nulls "problems". Roll

Fix yourselves. Whining to CCP because you caused the problem makes you look like an entitled child.

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#82 - 2013-01-23 18:28:48 UTC

Gianna Thirostin wrote:

No More Heroes wrote:

Docter Daniel Jackson wrote:

I know this is a noobie thing to ask, but what u you get from 0.0 space anyways? other then planets moons and belts.

anything worth fighting over?

Not really. Technetium was the conflict driver, so we monopolized and cartelled it. CCP nerfed it, its still pretty good but not enough for someone to invade us over.

Player generated content causing nulls "problems". Roll

Fix yourselves. Whining to CCP because you caused the problem makes you look like an entitled child.

We didn't cause the game mechanics to be as they are, and the game mechanics are the problem.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Nicolo da'Vicenza

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 3,706

#83 - 2013-01-23 18:31:30 UTC

flakeys wrote:

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

this sov problem didn't seem to stop your alliance from the conquest of mighty Cobalt Edge mere weeks ago hmmmm

It's only a problem when they are not 100% sure they win , they have come to the point where it is inevitable to risk a loss now , how amusingly ironic Blink

sov system sucks though so i'll roll with this thread until sov is fixed then the big two can find new excuses not to fight later

Natsett Amuinn

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 2,232

#84 - 2013-01-23 18:31:34 UTC

Gianna Thirostin wrote:

No More Heroes wrote:

Docter Daniel Jackson wrote:

I know this is a noobie thing to ask, but what u you get from 0.0 space anyways? other then planets moons and belts.

anything worth fighting over?

Not really. Technetium was the conflict driver, so we monopolized and cartelled it. CCP nerfed it, its still pretty good but not enough for someone to invade us over.

Player generated content causing nulls "problems". Roll

Fix yourselves. Whining to CCP because you caused the problem makes you look like an entitled child.

There's a huge amount of difference between causing a problem, and the majority of people who would be engaging in an activity pointing out a problem.

What you see is, most of the people who would be doing the structure grinding for sov, don't like it.
NOT the minority group.

They didn't like it the 1st time, the 2nd time, the 3rd time. Everytime they do it, they ***** about it.
There's a patern here.

Are you that guy that sees the stray animal backed into a corner hissing at you, and thinks it's to cute not to pet?

handige harrie

Vereenigde Handels Compagnie

Likes received: 384

#85 - 2013-01-23 18:32:06 UTC | Edited by: handige harrie

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Gianna Thirostin wrote:

No More Heroes wrote:

Docter Daniel Jackson wrote:

I know this is a noobie thing to ask, but what u you get from 0.0 space anyways? other then planets moons and belts.

anything worth fighting over?

Not really. Technetium was the conflict driver, so we monopolized and cartelled it. CCP nerfed it, its still pretty good but not enough for someone to invade us over.

Player generated content causing nulls "problems". Roll

Fix yourselves. Whining to CCP because you caused the problem makes you look like an entitled child.

We didn't cause the game mechanics to be as they are, and the game mechanics are the problem.

Weird, as I look down to SOLAR space, they seem to be having a ball regularly, no problems with game mechanics there...

the CFC is scared to lose stuff, that's why they don't do anything, this hasn't anything to do with game mechanics and everything with attitude, which game mechanics can't fix.

Baddest poster ever

Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#86 - 2013-01-23 18:36:34 UTC

Artimis Scout wrote:

Meh keep it the same. Right now the only 2 groups of people this is affecting are Goons and Test. Let them get bored and quit. After enough quit they won't be able to hold the space as others swoop in and take it...

And find out for themselves that we're not making this **** up.

Oh boy, your faces will be a picture

"We ground this ****ing station system for a week to get HOW MANY OFFICE SLOTS?"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#87 - 2013-01-23 18:37:26 UTC

handige harrie wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Gianna Thirostin wrote:

No More Heroes wrote:

Docter Daniel Jackson wrote:

I know this is a noobie thing to ask, but what u you get from 0.0 space anyways? other then planets moons and belts.

anything worth fighting over?

Not really. Technetium was the conflict driver, so we monopolized and cartelled it. CCP nerfed it, its still pretty good but not enough for someone to invade us over.

Player generated content causing nulls "problems". Roll

Fix yourselves. Whining to CCP because you caused the problem makes you look like an entitled child.

We didn't cause the game mechanics to be as they are, and the game mechanics are the problem.

Please remember to stay on-message here: 0.0 is all one big blue donut and no fighting occurrs.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016


James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#88 - 2013-01-23 18:53:30 UTC 2 That reminds me, I have something to add to my signature... Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Gianna Thirostin

Doomheim

Likes received: 19

#89 - 2013-01-23 18:55:42 UTC

Every complaint about sov can be boiled down to one key idea: boredom. "Structure grinding sucks" "null is a nap/nip fest" "theres no conflict drivers" et al. Boredom caused by the current state of null politics (aka player generated content). If you wanted to bring a war, theres no game mechanic prohibiting it. People being "too bored" to engage in an activity doesnt mean the problem is a mechanic, just that you feel it isnt worth your time/effort (which is also a player-generated decision)


James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#90 - 2013-01-23 18:59:59 UTC 1 Well it is, because, you know, conflict is supposed to be fun... Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Murk Paradox

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 760

#91 - 2013-01-23 19:00:40 UTC

Xpaulusx wrote:

I smell an unsub riot coming soon if somethings not done with Sov. This is now gotton so rediculously out of control that it is now hurting the game. CCP better wake up and smell the coffee before they have a repeat of thousands ubsubing. Nevermind the new ships, eyecandy, and other crap, start addressing issues that hurt the game, Sov being the main one. Blink

But what about all their other pilots on accounts or secondary accounts already using highsec for industry? Instead of ratting in their empty systems filled with belts they are off on a different account playing industrialist.

Although... what would happen if a big chunk of sov opened up and the playerbase took a hit.... would be interesting to see.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.


Natsett Amuinn Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 2,232	#92 - 2013-01-23 19:01:45 UTC 1 James Amril-Kesh wrote: Well it is, because, you know, conflict is supposed to be fun... They may not be able to make it fun. I'm serious, the fact that it's a game and there needs to be a level of balance may literally prevent it from being something that can be fun.

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#93 - 2013-01-23 19:04:38 UTC

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Well it is, because, you know, conflict is supposed to be fun...

They may not be able to make it fun.

I'm serious, the fact that it's a game and there needs to be a level of balance may literally prevent it from being something that can be fun.

I'm not arguing that we should do away with everything that's irritating and cumbersome, since some of that sort of stuff is as you pointed out necessary. The point is as it is currently not nearly as much of the fun stuff that would usually come along with that (battles as a result of people defending their sov, for example) happens anymore.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#94 - 2013-01-23 19:06:22 UTC

Gianna Thirostin wrote:

And if mission rewards were reduced by 75%, mission rat hp increased by 1000% and you had to slowboat 200km between every gate, there'd be no game mechanic preventing you from doing missions.

Just from enjoying or profiting from them.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

La Nariz

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,228

#95 - 2013-01-23 19:10:55 UTC

Malcanis wrote:

No no no see that's a game mechanic and sov is clearly a social problem. We can't ever nerf highsec.

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handige harrie

Vereenigde Handels Compagnie

Likes received: 384

#96 - 2013-01-23 19:11:16 UTC | Edited by: handige harrie

Malcanis wrote:

Please remember to stay on-message here: 0.0 is all one big blue donut and no fighting occurrs.

I agree and I'm sorry, pointing out the obvious flaw in the OP and subsequent Yesmen posts isn't what they want. I will let them continue with the pointless moaning about their self inflicted problems about not wanting to do stuff, but still want stuff done and not wanting to risk anything like time or iskies.

Baddest poster ever

Mortimer Civeri

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 521

#97 - 2013-01-23 19:11:37 UTC | Edited by: Mortimer Civeri

Gianna Thirostin wrote:

CCP Greyscale wrote:

•Shooting at stationary structures is boring
◦See: Starbase warfare, Dominion sov warfare. Even the good fights that do happen around such objectives could be improved by having better objectives.
◦Shooting at things with hitpoints scales very efficiently with fleet size, which encourages [the blob]

•Making something tedious will not stop players doing it if it's very clearly the best option. They'll do it, and they'll hate it
◦See: everything involving starbases. As a counterpoint though, things like the one-per-corp-per-system-per-day starbase rule demonstrate that if something doesn't make a big difference but is sufficiently awkward to do, then any theoretical "exploit" scenarios tend to fall out of favor quickly as they're just not worth the effort.

You see boredom, I see people who would rather gouge their eyes out with spoons, than engaging in a tedious, Dominion mechanics, sov war.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin

Artimis Scout

Wormhole Cartography

Likes received: 73

#98 - 2013-01-23 19:12:30 UTC

Malcanis wrote:

Artimis Scout wrote:

And find out for themselves that we're not making this **** up. Oh boy, your faces will be a picture "We ground this ****ing station system for a week to get HOW MANY OFFICE SLOTS?"

It was sure was fun doing that with POSes. We had to blow them all up in the system and then put new ones up. Also this was before this game turned into Capital Ships Online so we had to do that in battleships. And man I wish they had invention then cause T2 stuff sure was expensive cause only a few had the BPO's to make the items. That would have helped a little.

So forgive me if I don't care about your little whine fest because you guys had the need to take over all of Null. Really want to fix Null, fix capital ships. Its because of capital ships that you need all these huge grindy things.

I say make it even harder to keep sov. Put constellation installations in the area. Every 4 or so hours someone from the alliance has to sit there for 15 minutes to keep control. No other people can be with 10km of it. Miss 2 of those and the constallation can be taken over. Doesn't sound like fun, don't take over 100+ constallations. Have your alliance control only what they have man power to hold.

Nicolo da'Vicenza

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 3,706

#99 - 2013-01-23 19:13:23 UTC | Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Well it is, because, you know, conflict is supposed to be fun...

Not really - all forms of sov warfare have had their 'unfun' components focused on and magnified to maximum effect ('dickstar' POSs, mass sov abandonment, blueballing, hellcamping) because in a game where permanently killing your enemy or effecitvely depriving his ability to reship is not possible, the only way of creating lasting victory is making the conflict as unfun as possible for the enemy. There is no game mechanic change that will change this basic principle - there's some old TTH articles by Mittens on the subject.

Fact is even if sov warfare was turned into some sort of super fun happy roller coaster ride, the HBC/CFC war would not have happened under any circumstances and this whole thread is some sort of internalized narrative attempting to offset grunt disappointment from respective leadership onto CCP.

Still, fix sov.

Gianna Thirostin

Doomheim

Likes received: 19

#100 - 2013-01-23 19:13:32 UTC

Malcanis wrote:

Gianna Thirostin wrote:

And then it'd be your choice to do them or find something else to do with your time. Again a decision about whether you are "bored" or not.

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