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REJOICE Citizens: War between HBC and CFC averted PAX-NULLIA!!

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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#261 - 2013-01-26 05:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
MeBiatch wrote:
My vision of a better sov system is to move away from structure bashing and more to small-large scale pve/pvp.

The first thing i would do is make sov based on a slide not on an absolute number.

The second thing i would do is rework annoms into group pve with enhanced AI like incursions.

To gain Sov you as a corp or alliance will have to complete various annoms and clear them of rats to maintain sov...

The annoms would have restrictions on amount of ships and size restrictions that would scale from 5 cruisers on the small level all the way to unlimited when you get to the largest annom which has the tcu in it but you dont shoot the tcu you have to kill the npc (who are in capital ships now) and fight the defending fleet...

the goal is 'make sov warfare more fun'
somehow you aimed for that and ended up at 'tons of ratting-based sov'
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#262 - 2013-01-26 05:38:57 UTC
'CFC defeated by The Jagged Allliance, experts credit warmaster rmfhorus for brilliant sov defense'
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#263 - 2013-01-26 05:43:09 UTC
Andski wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
But maybe try mining. Better isk/hour gathering ABC ore than there is doing L4s.


mining arkanor is less than 60M/hour

and that's with a hulk with rorqual bonuses, after probing down a grav site and it assumes you're mining arkanor continuously

meanwhile, mining crokite and bistot is less profitable than mining scordite in 0.9, and a lot more effort

pretty sure L4s pay more than that



Yah, I love how people throw around "ABC ores" like they are magic. Oh, and they never factor in the time and cost of getting this stuff to a market.

And the A part of that is the _only_ one that is worth more isk/hr than commonly available highsec ores.

And unlike missions, you can't just dock up and get an NPC agent to just hand you a bookmark to the next site.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#264 - 2013-01-26 05:51:37 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Andski wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
But maybe try mining. Better isk/hour gathering ABC ore than there is doing L4s.


mining arkanor is less than 60M/hour

and that's with a hulk with rorqual bonuses, after probing down a grav site and it assumes you're mining arkanor continuously

meanwhile, mining crokite and bistot is less profitable than mining scordite in 0.9, and a lot more effort

pretty sure L4s pay more than that

Yah, I love how people throw around "ABC ores" like they are magic. Oh, and they never factor in the time and cost of getting this stuff to a market.

And the A part of that is the _only_ one that is worth more isk/hr than commonly available highsec ores.

And unlike missions, you can't just dock up and get an NPC agent to just hand you a bookmark to the next site.

SURPRISE, you should be in highsec!!!!!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#265 - 2013-01-26 06:23:46 UTC
^ I thought the goons are suppose to care, when doing an activity just leads to hard work and no fun.

Suppose Shepard, should just blue all the asteroids, or just have fun combat with them. Instead of actually trying to mine or something.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#266 - 2013-01-26 06:37:25 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ I thought the goons are suppose to care, when doing an activity just leads to hard work and no fun.

Suppose Shepard, should just blue all the asteroids, or just have fun combat with them. Instead of actually trying to mine or something.

I'm fine with things being horribly out of balance. It's all good in our HARSH AND COLD HIGHSEC ONLINE INTERNET NPC POLICE game.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#267 - 2013-01-26 07:13:38 UTC
^ I suppose it is fair that you are angry at us for bluing Concord.

In the beginning Concord and hi seccers were fierce enemies. Then we slacked our blood lust and saw how much we can control if we worked together. With Hi seccers blued with Concord, now we get all the stations slots, all the roid belts, and forced fed missions 24/7.

What has diplomacy brought.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#268 - 2013-01-26 07:54:49 UTC
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
This says more about the sov mechanics than anything.

We like shooting spaceships, not structures.

We can still shoot goons as much as we want.

Nobodoy "likes" sov warfare in its current state


Shooting pos in supercaps is a chore. Shooting pos in subcaps is a sure way to encourage suicide. And in the kind of war we would have had, subcaps would have done 90% of the heavy lifting.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#269 - 2013-01-26 08:03:25 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
This says more about the sov mechanics than anything.

We like shooting spaceships, not structures.

We can still shoot goons as much as we want.

Nobodoy "likes" sov warfare in its current state


Shooting pos in supercaps is a chore. Shooting pos in subcaps is a sure way to encourage suicide. And in the kind of war we would have had, subcaps would have done 90% of the heavy lifting.


Just to be sure I get this point right, subcap would of done the heavy lifting because no side would of wanted to risk thier supercaps right?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#270 - 2013-01-26 08:09:10 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Just to be sure I get this point right, subcap would of done the heavy lifting because no side would of wanted to risk thier supercaps right?


They would all be logged in prepared to jump on the other side if they deployed supers. It's a weird dance. As a general rule you want to be the one that engages in the fight on your terms. It's not like subcaps where you can just send the pilots home to snag another ship more fitted for the job at hand.
Dave Stark
#271 - 2013-01-26 08:55:37 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Yah, I love how people throw around "ABC ores" like they are magic. Oh, and they never factor in the time and cost of getting this stuff to a market.

And the A part of that is the _only_ one that is worth more isk/hr than commonly available highsec ores.

And unlike missions, you can't just dock up and get an NPC agent to just hand you a bookmark to the next site.


also worth nothing that to flip the belt you have to mine 2m/jetcan spod, which is a complete joke, it's worth half of any given high sec ore, if not less.

if you end up in a situation where a new grav site spawns in some one's prime time, and they cherry pick the HAH ores (and maybe the jaspet too) out of them, then every one else mining in that grav site earns less than they would in high sec because all that's left are high sec ores, and ores worth less than high sec ores. also, you have to mine all of them in order to flip the belt, and if you don't then it's questionable if you'll be able to cherry pick enough of the lucrative ores to maintain the indy level in the system.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#272 - 2013-01-26 09:21:30 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Yah, I love how people throw around "ABC ores" like they are magic. Oh, and they never factor in the time and cost of getting this stuff to a market.

And the A part of that is the _only_ one that is worth more isk/hr than commonly available highsec ores.

And unlike missions, you can't just dock up and get an NPC agent to just hand you a bookmark to the next site.


also worth nothing that to flip the belt you have to mine 2m/jetcan spod, which is a complete joke, it's worth half of any given high sec ore, if not less.

if you end up in a situation where a new grav site spawns in some one's prime time, and they cherry pick the HAH ores (and maybe the jaspet too) out of them, then every one else mining in that grav site earns less than they would in high sec because all that's left are high sec ores, and ores worth less than high sec ores. also, you have to mine all of them in order to flip the belt, and if you don't then it's questionable if you'll be able to cherry pick enough of the lucrative ores to maintain the indy level in the system.


How the hell is a system like that even supposed to make sense?
Dave Stark
#273 - 2013-01-26 09:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Yah, I love how people throw around "ABC ores" like they are magic. Oh, and they never factor in the time and cost of getting this stuff to a market.

And the A part of that is the _only_ one that is worth more isk/hr than commonly available highsec ores.

And unlike missions, you can't just dock up and get an NPC agent to just hand you a bookmark to the next site.


also worth nothing that to flip the belt you have to mine 2m/jetcan spod, which is a complete joke, it's worth half of any given high sec ore, if not less.

if you end up in a situation where a new grav site spawns in some one's prime time, and they cherry pick the HAH ores (and maybe the jaspet too) out of them, then every one else mining in that grav site earns less than they would in high sec because all that's left are high sec ores, and ores worth less than high sec ores. also, you have to mine all of them in order to flip the belt, and if you don't then it's questionable if you'll be able to cherry pick enough of the lucrative ores to maintain the indy level in the system.


How the hell is a system like that even supposed to make sense?


*shrug* ask ccp, they made it.

you've also go to remember the contents of a grav site is identical every time it's flipped. the proportions of minerals/ores within them were created (i think) when drone alloys were still in the game, and low ends were considerably cheaper, therefore until you got to spod you were almost always making profit above high sec, that unfortunately is no longer true.

basically, the rest of the game has changed and it seems that 0.0 sov grav sites simply haven't caught up.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2013-01-26 09:44:28 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Yah, I love how people throw around "ABC ores" like they are magic. Oh, and they never factor in the time and cost of getting this stuff to a market.

And the A part of that is the _only_ one that is worth more isk/hr than commonly available highsec ores.

And unlike missions, you can't just dock up and get an NPC agent to just hand you a bookmark to the next site.


also worth nothing that to flip the belt you have to mine 2m/jetcan spod, which is a complete joke, it's worth half of any given high sec ore, if not less.

if you end up in a situation where a new grav site spawns in some one's prime time, and they cherry pick the HAH ores (and maybe the jaspet too) out of them, then every one else mining in that grav site earns less than they would in high sec because all that's left are high sec ores, and ores worth less than high sec ores. also, you have to mine all of them in order to flip the belt, and if you don't then it's questionable if you'll be able to cherry pick enough of the lucrative ores to maintain the indy level in the system.


How the hell is a system like that even supposed to make sense?


It doesn't, and it is a reason nullsec mining is largely not a thing. And when it is, it tends to be dominated by Euro TZ people who can jump in right after downtime and get the grav sites while there is still some decent ore in it.

But highsec players don't know this. They are under the impression that nullsec belts are full of ark. The reality is that one usually has to chew through a ton of spod and then probe down a fresh grav site so you can cherry pick the highend (lol, check those market prices) ores, and leave the spod and crap for the next poor shmuck who thought he could make it big on nullsec mining.

Oh, and if the miners don't just put up with this, and mine all the spod everyday no matter how lame it is, the system will lose its industry level and the grav sites go back to being just a random occurrence like the other probed sites.


But we have ABC ores and are thus rolling in easy isk. Excuse me, I just rolled my eyes so hard that I sprained something.
Dave Stark
#275 - 2013-01-26 09:50:14 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
it tends to be dominated by Euro TZ people who can jump in right after downtime and get the grav sites while there is still some decent ore in it.


i am so, so very guilty of this.

i would literally pick the arkonor out of every site, and then go afk/log out until a new grav site popped up.
Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#276 - 2013-01-26 10:26:52 UTC
Just give it time ;)

There is still too much brohood left between the two groups. Let the frustrations sink, passions stew, incidents happen. Each great null sec war needs a good narrative. The Goonswarm of olde was driven by the hatred for the condescending manners of BoB, the forces of the DRF were whipped into action by the hatred for the northern carebear paradise ruled over by RMT overlords (an argument, perhaps ironically, used by both sides propaganda machines) and so on.

Sooner or later, something is bound to happen, the leaders will find ways to hate each other guts publicly, and the ~content~ will be provided.
Josef Djugashvilis
#277 - 2013-01-26 11:10:47 UTC
Is this a fair summary of this thread?

Folk who were not fighting each other, have decided to carry on not fighting each other.

This is not a signature.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#278 - 2013-01-26 11:32:45 UTC
More like players have become bored with SOV mechanics and just want fights.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#279 - 2013-01-26 13:57:55 UTC
Moonbears rejoice!

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#280 - 2013-01-26 14:31:01 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
My vision of a better sov system is to move away from structure bashing and more to small-large scale pve/pvp.

The first thing i would do is make sov based on a slide not on an absolute number.

The second thing i would do is rework annoms into group pve with enhanced AI like incursions.

To gain Sov you as a corp or alliance will have to complete various annoms and clear them of rats to maintain sov...

The annoms would have restrictions on amount of ships and size restrictions that would scale from 5 cruisers on the small level all the way to unlimited when you get to the largest annom which has the tcu in it but you dont shoot the tcu you have to kill the npc (who are in capital ships now) and fight the defending fleet...

the goal is 'make sov warfare more fun'
somehow you aimed for that and ended up at 'tons of ratting-based sov'



the idea can be adjusted by all means.

What i am aiming for is you have to farm a system to own a system and farming it will setup chances for reds to come in and try and **** on your castle.

its an enhanced mechanic that is used in FW but without any of the LP. All upgrades to system and such are done via ISK collection.

What this would do is greatly reduce the amount of systems an alliance can hold as they can only activly farm so much space.

Plus this would setup alot more small- mid scale pvp and allow smaller entities to mess with someone elses sov.

If done correctly its a win win for large and small scale alliances.

This has to happen with the advent of modular pos system/ destructable but more upgradable outposts/ ring mining and blance brought to force (projection).

What it would do is allow small - mid sized alliance the ability to gain sov and has fleet pvp

it would also bring industry back to 0.0

and it would make eve feel large again.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.