These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Retribution 1.1] Armor Tanking 1.5

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Callic Veratar
#1181 - 2013-02-04 16:11:46 UTC
I just did a quick look at some Vargur fits on battleclinic. Most of them have about 10-15 CPU left over after a dual XLASB fit. A sufficient nerf to the ASB may be to increase the fitting requirements to be on par with the T2 boosters rather than the T1.

30 more CPU and 50 more PG isn't much for a battleship, but it would likely be crippling to a cruiser.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1182 - 2013-02-04 16:24:09 UTC
Moonaura wrote:
Your argument sounds great when applied to Battleships...

Goes for all ships, cruisers load will cost <2M and carry maybe 2 reloads .. they already carry similar value in faction/T2 ammo and their fittings make up the bulk of initial cost ..

Again, if the cost of the 2-3 paste loads lets you win just one or two fights more out of 10-20 you are already in the black.

Cost efficiency of investing in paste goes through the roof when you hit frigate/dessie level due to hulls being practically free compared to fits and AAR output being almost equal to the dps levels involved.

It makes little difference which hull size you focus on, the investment in paste will be more than covered if said investment lets you have just one mail rather than becoming one.

PS: Note that I went with the 'outside' event of paste tripling in price, personally doubt it will more than double (over time, not counting initial speculation buys) if that so numbers will likely be even more in favour of my argument.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1183 - 2013-02-04 16:49:33 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
A lot of questions have been coming in concerning alternate modes for the AAR such as being able to toggle the more powerful rep. That's not something we can do for 1.1 and we'd have to take time to consider it more fully but I won't rule out the idea.

Any chance that we will see regular reps being loaded with nano-paste, in the future?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1184 - 2013-02-04 16:56:54 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
A lot of questions have been coming in concerning alternate modes for the AAR such as being able to toggle the more powerful rep. That's not something we can do for 1.1 and we'd have to take time to consider it more fully but I won't rule out the idea.

Any chance that we will see regular reps being loaded with nano-paste, in the future?


Anything is possible, but I don't want to commit to anything in that vein at this time.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1185 - 2013-02-04 20:48:55 UTC
How come I can't fit more than one AAR? I can fit multiple oversized ASB modules that use zero capacitor, but not multiple armor reppers?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#1186 - 2013-02-04 21:15:36 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
How come I can't fit more than one AAR? I can fit multiple oversized ASB modules that use zero capacitor, but not multiple armor reppers?

Apparently the ASB is so OP that CCP doesn't want to make the same mistake twice. Also because people who armor-tank can't have nice things.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1187 - 2013-02-04 22:22:24 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
How come I can't fit more than one AAR? I can fit multiple oversized ASB modules that use zero capacitor, but not multiple armor reppers?

They learned their lesson about making an overpowerd, neut-immune, oversizeable, multiple-fittable rep module with the ASB. So to fix the mistake they made with the new OP shield tanking module, they decided to pre-nerf the new armor tanking module.

See? All better now.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1188 - 2013-02-04 22:25:48 UTC
Yeah, let's not fix the broken module... let's just make sure any similar module is nerfed into obsolescence before it's introduced.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1189 - 2013-02-05 05:17:02 UTC
Freighdee Katt wrote:

They learned their lesson about making an overpowerd, neut-immune, oversizeable, multiple-fittable rep module with the ASB. So to fix the mistake they made with the new OP shield tanking module, they decided to pre-nerf the new armor tanking module.

See? All better now.

so why didn't they nerf the asb..

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#1190 - 2013-02-05 05:43:53 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Freighdee Katt wrote:

They learned their lesson about making an overpowerd, neut-immune, oversizeable, multiple-fittable rep module with the ASB. So to fix the mistake they made with the new OP shield tanking module, they decided to pre-nerf the new armor tanking module.

See? All better now.

so why didn't they nerf the asb..

They might, but then again they might not. Imagine the ranting and the tears in the forum's if they announced they were!

Friends
Luc Chastot
#1191 - 2013-02-05 06:46:50 UTC
ASBs should take like 5 minutes to reload.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#1192 - 2013-02-05 10:51:57 UTC
I propose you guys calm down a bit.

ASB has been nerved a lot with the last patch. Pre-patch in FW nearly every shield frigate was fitted with an ASB. Now I rarely see people use ASB. So at least within the context of FW the ASB is not that much overpowered any more.

With regards to the AAR, I think the general approach is right. Even though I think that it is too much pre-nerved. Either the rep factor should be higher, current rep factor of 2.25x a T1 repairer when loaded which equals 1.66 of a T2 repairer, which is not much especially if taking into account that a small repairer just runs for 8 x 4.5s = 36s (assuming full skills).

Since the small reppers have a repair cycle which is half of the medium and large ones I think they should be able to hold twice the amount of paste, which means for 16 cycles. Alternatively the small repairers should have a rep factor which is twice that high as it currently is, so that they are intended to be used in burst mode.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1193 - 2013-02-05 13:04:12 UTC
Meditril wrote:
...Since the small reppers have a repair cycle which is half of the medium and large ones I think they should be able to hold twice the amount of paste, which means for 16 cycles. Alternatively the small repairers should have a rep factor which is twice that high as it currently is, so that they are intended to be used in burst mode.

SAAR is the least of the problems as everything is pretty well balanced on the frig/dessie level to begin with, ie. the dps/ehp ratios are spot on.
Thirty seconds is in the upper range of the average frig/dessie fight duration so again, spot on. Any longer and you are going from buffing armour tanking to buffing a specific hull exclusively, namely the Incursus (Punisher does not have cap or slots to get cap for much longer than 30s).
Same applies if you double the rep amount and although that would include the Punisher it would still be be a big FU to all other frigs/dessies.

Can be argued that MAAR/LAAR should have room for more than 8 cycles as dps/ehp ratio tends to be skewed due to more people being involved, but increasing rep amount modifier should be done/considered very carefully as you don't want to create an environment where extreme neuting is mandatory for anything to get done (as Amarr only, it is bad enough as is) .. the HP/cap with extra rep amount risks awarding a massive advantage to ships with cap to spare.

Speaking of the Punisher/Incursus .. I'd really like a third mid on my Punisher for an injector or in the very least a hefty cap bump. Falls far behind in the cap race at the mere mention of a small neut Big smile
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1194 - 2013-02-05 13:09:33 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
so why didn't they nerf the asb

No need to. They nerfed the AAR instead to balance it.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Naomi Anthar
#1195 - 2013-02-05 13:29:20 UTC
Guys and girls please stop giving feedback they don't care. They think asb is fine , maybe they will even buff it for lolz. cmon - i'm mad at myself now. I was thinking our feedback and most notably valid arguments can shift or change anything - no they can't. Train shield skill skills and move along. Game is still fun even with this part broken i guess.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1196 - 2013-02-05 16:40:27 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Guys and girls please stop giving feedback they don't care. They think asb is fine , maybe they will even buff it for lolz. cmon - i'm mad at myself now. I was thinking our feedback and most notably valid arguments can shift or change anything - no they can't. Train shield skill skills and move along. Game is still fun even with this part broken i guess.


you guess?

But, indeed, CCP should read more the forums...

There would be no need for the CSM to exist if everyone in CCP were listening what we say here...

And don't forget... for now, CCP Fozzie is the best DEV iin this category... He really listen to people here!

But once ha makes a decision, he needs to develop on that, put on sisi, see if it worked, and then move on or rework it...

so have some patience with him...(but not with the rest of CCP Evil )

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1197 - 2013-02-05 17:15:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


  • Change the penalty on all active armor rigs (Aux Nano Pump, Nanobot Accelerator, and the new Nanobot Overcharger) to increase the powergrid use of local armor reps by 10% instead of reducing ship velocity. Note this is increasing the PG use of the reps by 10% (or 5% at Armor Rigging V) not decreasing the total PG of the ship.

    • Armor Reps:New:
  • Reduce the Powergrid requirements of all Medium Armor Repair units by 20%
  • Reduce the Powergrid requirements of all Large Armor Repair units by 10%



    • This mean that for BS the things will be the same at the start and will be better in the late game??

    Finally a Good Buff to the armor system! It is a shame lacking powergrid and dps becouse of the tank...

    Please read these!

    New POS system New SOV system
    Haifisch Zahne
    Hraka Manufacture GmbH
    #1198 - 2013-02-05 17:15:49 UTC
    Maybe suggested, but I am not going through 60+ pages of posts, sorry.

    Give armor repper's an additional bonus of 5% to all armor resists (per some skill level?) .

    (My luck, no one reads this thread anymore. Or, better still, only trolls.)
    Jerick Ludhowe
    Internet Tuff Guys
    #1199 - 2013-02-05 17:24:34 UTC
    Commander Ted wrote:
    How come I can't fit more than one AAR? I can fit multiple oversized ASB modules that use zero capacitor, but not multiple armor reppers?


    It's a simple admittance that listening to the community when it comes to the introduction of new modules produced for a fail "new modules idea" sticky thread was an astoundingly "mongoloidish" idea.

    The reality is that ccp is finally beginning to pull their heads out of the communal ass they've been stuck in for so many years. In essence, don't expect CCP to correct unquestionable mistakes of the past by introducing more content destroying "content".
    PavlikX
    Scan Stakan
    HOLD MY PROBS
    #1200 - 2013-02-05 18:37:44 UTC
    Can we hope on T2 and other meta versions of AAR and RAH?
    I reaaly hope so. New modules needs more versions.