Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Many times i saw hypers, maels, brutix and even vindic that just fit 2-3 neut instead of turrets.
All battery (S,M,L) must have same bonus for neut reduction. And not 12,5% (why it 25% for vamps that rarely use and 12,5% on neuts? Switch plz) 25% for all.
Small and medium need less CPU (50 and 75 for T2? Srsly?).

Perhaps ASB's should use cap when loaded? I mean not even that much, like as much as a single blaster?

ASB and AAR should be vulnerable to cap warfare.

That weird mechanics like the one you're describing are being considered in a desperate attempt to fix the problem just goes to show what a horrible idea cap warfare immune ASBs are.

Instead of the ASB being a shield booster plus cap booster in one, moving Shield Boost Amps to a low slot might have been a better way to give shield tanks an extra mid.

That way shield tanks don't get a freebie slot and are subject to cap warfare in the same way as everyone else.

Want to hear the other brain-fart, the really out-of-box one?

Extenders as is.
Boosters as is.

ASB to be remodelled to act like the old-school RPG mana-shield, all damage absorbed, every 2-4 (meta level?) points of damage burns one cap.
- Ultimate burst tanking, severely limited by first the fitting of the mod itself and second by injectors and their slower 'speed', plus of course cargo requirement.
- Only good for short engagements (like active armour) as everything as you know turns off when cap dry, micro nightmare to click everything on next charge going in.
- Major rewiring results in base shields being halved so once dry it collapses even faster (hardeners/DCU gone as well).
- Only really worthwhile Caldari/Minmatar due to their mainly capless weapons (ASB Abaddon will be risky as hell).

So you see, I just gave the the one I thought was most palatable

The same as all the other new modules since Inferno then.

Also, Fozzie, any chance for meta and T2 Reactive Armor Hardeners in 1.1?

More math.

A base MWD Thorax goes 2028 m/s. The 1600mm case is going from a 77% of speed to a 79% of the speed. The 800mm case is going from a 82% of the speed to 83% of the speed. The proposed skill only marginally helps the speed penalty problem. Please do not add it.

Fozzie, plz look at this...
x3 skill that give you 48m\s on crus while MWD on. And 1600mm plate significantly increase thorax mass...

"Limited to one per ship " ... WHY ?!!!!! As far as my knowledge can tell me , there is NOTHING wrong with putting more than 1 ASBs and putting oversized ASBs aswell.

I'm starting to think that problem does not lie within armor, but within shield.
Fozzie desperately admitted that they don't want to give AAR treatment of ASB because "we already have stuff that is immune to neuts and we don't want to repeat this mistake" - he did not said that, but anyone who got clue knows that it's exactly that.

Maybe it's high time to make topic Shield tanking 1.5. Because blindly and desperately buffing armor can cause more problems than good things. The problem is not withing armor tanking actually. Shield tanking is so retardely op atm , without any single drawback to begin with, that devs actually have no idea how to match this. Just go for shields and nerf across the board and problem is solved , no need to buff armor more than you proposed.

Some more thoughts on the ASB


What was the intent with introducing ASBs? Many ships didn't have enough mid slots for active shield tanks to be effective, as such the ASB was to combine shield booster plus cap booster in one module. This created twobig problems:

1. The ASB mounted on ships with capless weapons is a hard counter to fits that due to low-mediocre dps must use energy neutralizers to break tanks. Being able to hard counter another fit should have some downsides, namely being hard countered by something else. ASBs aren't hard countered by anything and don't have to give up anything either for their supremacy. While ASB ships became popular, the fits that the ASB hard counters became unpopular. So the ASB isn't really making more ships viable for solo/small gangs, it's just changing which ships are viable.

2. Oversized shield boosters are limited by their capacitor use. A XL-SB on a battlecruiser must still be fed with a medium cap booster because oversizing cap boosters is impossible. As such oversized shield boosters are especially vulnerable to energy neutralizing, as it should be.

An oversized ASB on the other hand is at the same time also an oversized cap booster and any cap problems normally related to oversizing disappear.

3. Multiple ASBs end up being ridiculously effective.


So what's the way out of this? The ASB must be changed. It violates a basic design principle (hard counters without being countered by something else or having a downside) and oversized ASBs are just overpowered. The original problem of active shield tanks requiring too many mid slots must still be adressed though.


It has been suggested to make the ASB cost some cap even when loaded. That sounds very reasonable at first, but it would make ASB fits MORE vulnerable to energy neutralizing compared to a SB+cap booster combo. Once they get low on cap, there is no recovery because they wouldn't be able to fire the ASB even with charges loaded. Not a good idea.

It has been suggested to introduce a low or high slot cap booster instead to free up a mid slot for active shield tanks. That also sounds reasonable as long as limit ourselves to shield tanks. However it would massively affect many ships, especially Amarr, giving them more flexibility than intended. Not a good idea, unless some severe and artificial restrictions are placed on this low/high slot cap booster to limit its use to shield tanks.

I suggested moving shield boost amps to a low slot to free up a mid for shield tanks. This is a simply and elegant solution but with the problem that frigates who don't usually fit boost amps won't benefit much if at all.


Personally I favor a solution that lets active shield tankers move a module from a mid to a low (details to be decided), with an ASB that mirrors the AAR and thus requires a cap booster to be used while consuming nanite paste.