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In game live intel map?
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daveo911
Docked and Loaded
#21 - 2013-01-22 13:22:47 UTC  |  Edited by: daveo911
Ancy Denaries wrote:
daveo911 wrote:
OP I totally understand where your coming from and appreciate what your trying to accomplish.

However

I fundamentally disagree with the need for more Intel, I feel safer in null sec then i do in High sec, which is crazy backwards. This is because i have too much Intel, if i had less Intel i would get in more fights, and fights would be much more dynamic. Thats why some of the best (small gang) fights can be found in WH's

Incidently, this would give you less intel. Unless your entire alliance all of a sudden had a sudden and instant need for OCD to patrol your entire space.

Of course, only if local was also nerfed in the process. Otherwise it would of course be rather meh :/



So are you adding in your proposal some sort of nerf to local? Otherwise you system clearly increase the amount and ease of access for intel.
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#22 - 2013-01-22 17:10:25 UTC
daveo911 wrote:

So are you adding in your proposal some sort of nerf to local? Otherwise you system clearly increase the amount and ease of access for intel.

Yes, naturally. Hence
Quote:
With local being "the all powerful intel tool" it is today, I see this being a good replacement as this puts the power in the hands of the players, and also gives the alliance ONE central place to gather all their intel.

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
Sir Dragon
Einherjar Yggdrasils
#23 - 2013-01-23 09:32:57 UTC
yes, it was tl:tr :D

I love it!

What I saw, was the "Solar System Map" (reachable via f10 -> "solar system map" button).

Then there is a "connect to Alliance, Intel" button.

Press it...

The map comes alive with blue and red dots. (what ever colours u like baby...)

Restrictions:
Not available to hostile (people that do not have sovereignity)
Requires extensive "new" sensor array networks setup in the system, (providing data to the map)
1 scanner = crappy intel
2 scanners you might know which way a HUGE blob is moving
.
.
.
x scanners, you get ship count, damage reports, down to the headlines on the newspaper a target is reading.

Do not void logic in the construction of this, it gives smart people migranes.
Pantera Home Videos:    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/ck2ykdBrDRM/Pantera-Vulgar-Video-Full-Completo.html  ;  http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/xpma3u7OjfU/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD1.html ;    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/yyO9rAx8eoQ/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD2.html .
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#24 - 2013-01-23 17:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ancy Denaries
Erik Finnegan wrote:
Given that the proposal is based solely on manual work, I cannot see how it was too powerful. Adjusting details with potential changes to the local channel notwithstanding.

The new way of presenting the available information gathered by an alliance pilot, via the star map, appeals to me as a really cool way of giving more credit to the honourable work of scouts.

The feature could potentially be limited to alliance-controlled space, tied into sov; at most bordering systems, but not further. Future changes to what sov means and how it is obtained -- aka "use it or lose it" -- scouting by the means of this feature, i. e. submitting intel, could contribute to a future sov coefficient.

Now, one concern I have as this feature appears to be easily "bot-able"; but that's an issue for CCP Sreegs. And as previous posters said, similar info-collection apps exist already, hence bots also already exist if this is really useful. Thus no change with an implementation of the suggestion.

Hmm, having it tied to the sov system was never something I considered. But that's actually a really clever one. It would make holding important systems more valuable since you could literally "have eyes" in that system if you do, such as transit systems, entrances and exists etc etc.

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-01-23 22:13:24 UTC
I like this idea, provided local wasn't removed with it.

I do have some suggestions to add on though. The first is that a corp/alliance/group could allow other players and entity's to use and/or/ update their live intel map. Any player could create a new intel map, much like mailing lists.

The second is that someone connected to an intel map could click a button to the left of the capacitor doughnut, and active a "live steam" feature. It would allow others with sufficient roles to use the intel map, and zoom to see the streamers "grid" through the map. It wouldn't be full scale like in space, but all ships on grid are colored according to their background and/or standing color. Suspects, Criminals, people with a limited engagement to you, outlaws, and other shootable targets would show up like that with their standing color attached.

The ship low-quality model is used, but colored with a shaded monochrome paint. Also, all ships show as they are on grid, alignment and all. People overwatching the fight through the map would be able to see the health of any broadcasters, as well as the % of remaining shields/armor/hull remaining on the targets they have locked. Cloaked players can't broadcast, with the exception of Recons, Bombers, and cloaky T3s using a covops cloak, and Black-Ops battleships.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#26 - 2013-01-23 22:28:53 UTC
I would suggest this intel tool variation:

Have pilots set their overview to show all the items they want parsed.
(Non ship items such as drones, jet cans, and system beacon items can be considered self eliminating for this)

Instead of a screenshot, pilots would hit the intel 'transmit' button, which would take every ship on their overview, along with a time stamp for reference, and submit it to a map database.

Each system on the database would have a list of pilots seen, along with the time.
Any time a pilot is located in a new location, it wipes their previous location in favor of the new one.

I am suggesting this as an in-game tool, not a third party solution. Make intel gathering by a corp, perhaps an alliance even, something that is more user friendly.

Pulling up the in game map, would put a mark next to every system where an intel report had been made inside of a selected time window. This would allow players to make the desired group effort to scout, and report back.

It also removes pointless obstacles such as trouble understanding voice coms, or missing a line in a chat window that went by before it was noticed by the right person.

Intel is too much a "do - it - yourself" burden right now, which is probably why local chat keeps being misused for it. Players hate extra effort if they can take a shortcut they think will meet their needs.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#27 - 2013-01-23 23:58:22 UTC
I did consider an automated version where the ship would simply transmit whatever was on your overview at the time back to "central". But I felt it became too much of a "lazy man" solution then. Not to mention a hideous data hog, probably. Having it only show actual reported "reds" would be a more elegant solution, and requiring "manual labor" also makes for less clutter.

I understand the want for an automated transmit system, I do. I'd like one too, but I feel the game would suffer from it. Both from a gameplay perspective and a server perspective. I can't really explain why. It just...feels wrong to have everything so easily and automagically parsed all the time.

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#28 - 2013-01-24 03:15:11 UTC
Ancy Denaries wrote:
I did consider an automated version where the ship would simply transmit whatever was on your overview at the time back to "central". But I felt it became too much of a "lazy man" solution then. Not to mention a hideous data hog, probably. Having it only show actual reported "reds" would be a more elegant solution, and requiring "manual labor" also makes for less clutter.

I understand the want for an automated transmit system, I do. I'd like one too, but I feel the game would suffer from it. Both from a gameplay perspective and a server perspective. I can't really explain why. It just...feels wrong to have everything so easily and automagically parsed all the time.

And yet, if you don't at least match Local Chat on some level, how will we inspire players to stop using it as a source of intel?

The key element of any player driven mechanic, which is the whole point of any competitive, (AKA PvP), game... is that it must succeed or fail based on player effort. Local Chat betrays that, obviously, and the bar for strategy and cleverness is forced to low levels because of it.

We seem to want to replace an automated and perfect intel source, whose greatest flaw is that it includes too much information. Local chat showing docked and undetectable craft is treated as frustrating, and the players it displays are accused of abuse for not validating the intel by appearing to the pilots using it.

Noone is going to use any manual system requiring effort if they get the same value of intel for free.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#29 - 2013-01-24 15:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: DJ P0N-3
This sounds like an interesting skeleton of something that could replace local's functionality. I don't think it will happen without a massive overhaul of everything 0.0-related, but if that day does come, something like this seems like a good idea.

I'd recommend having a hotkey for reporting someone for intel mapping instead of navigating a right-click menu, though. I also wouldn't go so far as to give name and alliance/corp of someone you only see on dscan, since you don't normally know that from dscan alone. Perhaps add a "link" function between a dscan report and someone who appears in local/constellation/whatever, because local won't give you a ship type.
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#30 - 2013-01-24 16:31:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ancy Denaries
DJ P0N-3 wrote:
This sounds like an interesting skeleton of something that could replace local's functionality. I don't think it will happen without a massive overhaul of everything 0.0-related, but if that day does come, something like this seems like a good idea.

I'd recommend having a hotkey for reporting someone for intel mapping instead of navigating a right-click menu, though. I also wouldn't go so far as to give name and alliance/corp of someone you only see on dscan, since you don't normally know that from dscan alone. Perhaps add a "link" function between a dscan report and someone who appears in local/constellation/whatever, because local won't give you a ship type.

You're right, I funked that up a bit. I honestly forgot that D-scan only gives you a ship type. Correcting the OP. I was so caught up in my type-o-rama that I slipped up there. Sorry!

Also, a hotkey is likely a better idea. I'm a bit too old for this new and shiny hotkey stuff :P

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
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