These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Do many EVE players fear consentual PvP?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2013-01-21 23:52:45 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Want some - one on one?

Just find somewhere quiet and get to it.

No need for a new mechanic to facilitate it.

Or have a mechanic and do it wherever, taking the chance of interference in more crowded places without increasing the odds of it happening too greatly. Why should people who want to duel not be able to just outside of a hub station or anywhere else?
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2013-01-21 23:59:34 UTC
Ila Gant wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Ila Gant wrote:
There is no non-consensual PvP in EvE. Undocking is consent.

Sure there is. There is "Mutual" wars, both sides consent to unrestricted combat-PVP. That marketing mubojumbo sounds great at fanfest though, but if it were true there wouldn't be a high sec and there wouldn't be penalties.

Eve is about consequences. If you get into a brawl in a bar downtown, you probably get picked up by the police and sent to jail. Firing without permission from Concord has roughly the same consequences. You expose yourself to the possibility of someone throwing that illegal punch when you undock.

Would be interesting if the police got to blow up your car for getting into a fight, though.

There you go again trying to relate EVE to RL. again. Whats wrong with having consensual-PVP?
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#83 - 2013-01-22 00:07:06 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Ila Gant wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Ila Gant wrote:
There is no non-consensual PvP in EvE. Undocking is consent.

Sure there is. There is "Mutual" wars, both sides consent to unrestricted combat-PVP. That marketing mubojumbo sounds great at fanfest though, but if it were true there wouldn't be a high sec and there wouldn't be penalties.

Eve is about consequences. If you get into a brawl in a bar downtown, you probably get picked up by the police and sent to jail. Firing without permission from Concord has roughly the same consequences. You expose yourself to the possibility of someone throwing that illegal punch when you undock.

Would be interesting if the police got to blow up your car for getting into a fight, though.

There you go again trying to relate EVE to RL. again. Whats wrong with having consensual-PVP?


All PvP is consensual, unless someone forces you to login in.

The Tears Must Flow
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2013-01-22 00:15:39 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
All PvP is consensual, unless someone forces you to login in.

That makes no sense and runs contrary to every action taken by anyone in game to avoid combat.
FourierTransformer
#85 - 2013-01-22 00:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: FourierTransformer
Where was all this fear mongering when people used cans to duel on the Jita undock pre-crimewatch?
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#86 - 2013-01-22 00:23:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
All PvP is consensual, unless someone forces you to login in.

That makes no sense and runs contrary to every action taken by anyone in game to avoid combat.


You are very confused and fail to understand the nature of the game. You login, you accept the EvE sandbox.

It's like people complaning when they lose all their money in Monopoly.

The Tears Must Flow
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2013-01-22 00:28:17 UTC
FourierTransformer wrote:
Where was all this fear mongering when people used cans to duel on the Jita undock pre-crimewatch?



Maybe people have realized where all the pvp went to. And now that they know CCP is supporting hisec in order to have "pvp light", they're plain ... confused.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-01-22 00:29:42 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
All PvP is consensual, unless someone forces you to login in.

That makes no sense and runs contrary to every action taken by anyone in game to avoid combat.


You are very confused and fail to understand the nature of the game. You login, you accept the EvE sandbox.

It's like people complaning when they lose at the money in Monopoly.

Accepting the sandbox and consenting to all PVP are not equivalent. You accept that anyone at any time may engage you as the opportunity occurs, but that is not an agreement to engage all who would try.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#89 - 2013-01-22 00:30:26 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
All PvP is consensual, unless someone forces you to login in.

That makes no sense and runs contrary to every action taken by anyone in game to avoid combat.


You are very confused and fail to understand the nature of the game. You login, you accept the EvE sandbox.

It's like people complaning when they lose at the money in Monopoly.

Accepting the sandbox and consenting to all PVP are not equivalent. You accept that anyone at any time may engage you as the opportunity occurs, but that is not an agreement to engage all who would try.


You you even understand what a sandbox mmo-rpg is?

The Tears Must Flow
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-01-22 00:31:48 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
You you even understand what a sandbox mmo-rpg is?

Do you? Would you like to try addressing my statement instead of just repeating rhetoric?
Ginger Barbarella
#91 - 2013-01-22 00:33:13 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Reading the negative comments on the so-called 'arena' system, you hear a lot of people saying it's more suited to carebears or something


Way to ignore everyone saying it's a pointless mechanic in a game where what the whiners are asking for ALREADY FREAKING EXISTS... Good job.

Oh, and reading comprehension ftw.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
FourierTransformer
#92 - 2013-01-22 00:35:35 UTC  |  Edited by: FourierTransformer
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
FourierTransformer wrote:
Where was all this fear mongering when people used cans to duel on the Jita undock pre-crimewatch?



Maybe people have realized where all the pvp went to. And now that they know CCP is supporting hisec in order to have "pvp light", they're plain ... confused.

For 9 years, hisec had can flipping duels. During that time Nullsec Empires rose, fell, rose, and fell again. Lowsec thrived, and became a depopulated wasteland, and thrived again.

Honestly, I think 9 years of evidence proves that hisec duels don't mean **** for lowsec or nullsec. Fixing Facwar, The absolute dulldrum that is the current null sec donut, and the T1 frig, destroyer, and cruiser buffs are the reason for a resurging lowsec atm.
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Reading the negative comments on the so-called 'arena' system, you hear a lot of people saying it's more suited to carebears or something


Way to ignore everyone saying it's a pointless mechanic in a game where what the whiners are asking for ALREADY FREAKING EXISTS... Good job.

Oh, and reading comprehension ftw.


Except it doesn't. CCP took out a mechanic that existed for 9 years and have stated that they want to reinstate it. Gosh, pvp must have been awful during those 9 years for eve to have experienced nearly uninterrupted growth, amirite?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-01-22 00:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Reading the negative comments on the so-called 'arena' system, you hear a lot of people saying it's more suited to carebears or something


Way to ignore everyone saying it's a pointless mechanic in a game where what the whiners are asking for ALREADY FREAKING EXISTS... Good job.

Oh, and reading comprehension ftw.

I've seen the accusation several times that the functionality of the dueling mechanic already exists, but I can't think of a way to replicate it. Since several others have stated it I will gladly concede my issue in regard to that is ignorance and ask: How do you use current mechanics to allow 2 parties to engage in a limited conflict similar to what the duel system will allow?
Warp Planet6
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2013-01-22 00:46:39 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
How do you use current mechanics to allow 2 parties to engage in a limited conflict similar to what the duel system will allow?


Move lowsec, warp planet 6 and fight like a boss.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#95 - 2013-01-22 00:47:57 UTC
Key word in this thread is "consensual" - keep that in mind.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Renzo Ruderi
Doomheim
#96 - 2013-01-22 00:49:42 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Reading the negative comments on the so-called 'arena' system, you hear a lot of people saying it's more suited to carebears or something


Way to ignore everyone saying it's a pointless mechanic in a game where what the whiners are asking for ALREADY FREAKING EXISTS... Good job.

Oh, and reading comprehension ftw.

I've seen the accusation several times that the functionality of the dueling mechanic already exists, but I can't think of a way to replicate it. Since several others have stated it I will gladly concede my issue in regard to that is ignorance and ask: How do you use current mechanics to allow 2 parties to engage in a limited conflict similar to what the duel system will allow?


Because can-flipping is two people operating within the laws of the EVE universe, circumventing CONCORD rules to go a round or two without the cops crashing their party. It doesn't stop someone else from crashing their party, just provides the party in a way that fits the universe as it exists.

Adding a duel button will only accomplish one thing: You won't be able to fly through any populated system without getting spammed with 347 duel request windows. I'd rather fly past humorously-named yellow containers, or get jumped by someone willing to be a pirate (and accept those consequences) than be bothered with even a single duel request window.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#97 - 2013-01-22 00:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Way to ignore everyone saying it's a pointless mechanic in a game where what the whiners are asking for ALREADY FREAKING EXISTS... Good job.

Oh, and reading comprehension ftw.


There are lots of different claims, and that's why i added 'or something' instead of addressing every one. I don't really think many of the claims are even worth serious consideration, because they either don't make sense at all, or are a blatant attempt to spin or misrepresent the subject. I've been on these forums so long i just tune out that derp when i see it starting. And i made this thread to attempt a rational discussion.

Also, like others have mentioned, ever since can aggression was removed it hasn't existed.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-01-22 00:54:27 UTC
Warp Planet6 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
How do you use current mechanics to allow 2 parties to engage in a limited conflict similar to what the duel system will allow?


Move lowsec, warp planet 6 and fight like a boss.

That doesn't provide any of the benefits of the duel system.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-01-22 00:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Renzo Ruderi wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Reading the negative comments on the so-called 'arena' system, you hear a lot of people saying it's more suited to carebears or something


Way to ignore everyone saying it's a pointless mechanic in a game where what the whiners are asking for ALREADY FREAKING EXISTS... Good job.

Oh, and reading comprehension ftw.

I've seen the accusation several times that the functionality of the dueling mechanic already exists, but I can't think of a way to replicate it. Since several others have stated it I will gladly concede my issue in regard to that is ignorance and ask: How do you use current mechanics to allow 2 parties to engage in a limited conflict similar to what the duel system will allow?


Because can-flipping is two people operating within the laws of the EVE universe, circumventing CONCORD rules to go a round or two without the cops crashing their party. It doesn't stop someone else from crashing their party, just provides the party in a way that fits the universe as it exists.

Adding a duel button will only accomplish one thing: You won't be able to fly through any populated system without getting spammed with 347 duel request windows. I'd rather fly past humorously-named yellow containers, or get jumped by someone willing to be a pirate (and accept those consequences) than be bothered with even a single duel request window.

2 things
- You can only ever have 1 request pending, additional requests are auto rejected and do not stack additional windows.
- Auto reject is being considered and IMHO should be included at launch so here is hoping

Edit: This is also circumventing concord in the same functional capacity as before and still leaves you open to outside interference. This is basically press button, other guy presses button, get mutual can flip.
Ginger Barbarella
#100 - 2013-01-22 00:58:49 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Warp Planet6 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
How do you use current mechanics to allow 2 parties to engage in a limited conflict similar to what the duel system will allow?


Move lowsec, warp planet 6 and fight like a boss.

That doesn't provide any of the benefits of the duel system.


Or the safety; it merely removes the risk that is the hallmark of Eve Online. Curious that, no?

I don't want to play WoW in Space. I don't want to play Aeon in Space. You guys want that pussification in the way you play, leave. I'll happily hold the door for you (and no, I don't want your tainted stuffs).

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac