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Optimizing Invention & Manufacturing Calculator + How to make a bil per week

Author
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#81 - 2012-01-22 14:00:51 UTC
You'll be hard pressed to make 1B/wk with just 10 copy slots (copy slots are generally your bottleneck). 30M per slot per week is fairly easy to achieve, 40-50M/wk a bit harder and 75-100M/wk is a bit out of reach for most T2 items. (Now, you might be able to bypass the copy slot bottleneck by purchasing BPC packs.)

That being said - assuming that you have 25% margins, you would need to sell about 4B/wk in order to make 1B/wk in profits. If your margins are higher, then you need less gross sales per week to make your target number, if margins are tighter then you need much higher gross sales/wk to make your target profit.

Initial setup at the lower end (5 copy slots, 5 BPOs, 10 manuf, 5 invent) is probably in the 300-600M ISK range to get started. More if you have to setup a small POS tower (300-400M plus 100M/mo). If you're really patient and go with public slots and just buy BPC packs, you can probably push that down to 200-300M.
Eve Tycoon II
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-01-22 18:24:52 UTC
@Jes Visuit
There are two ways of doing the invention. One is to do some stuff from time to time, use some of it, sell the rest. This is what most of eve does, and it will make you perhaps 100-200 mil per month (plus side is that as scrapyard said, you will be able to use public slots). This is a good option for new characters, but if you want to commit then you can make much more.

If you want to make a bil per week you need to mass produce, and by that I do mean freigtherloads of stuff. I detailed the setup in my guides section (about 500mil in pos and modules), plus a freighter or a contract with somebody who will deliver stuff that you need and take away the products so that you don't run on empty.

Scrapyard was correct about the turnover, you will be turning over about 5 bil per week for most items, this means you will need to keep about 2 bil in produce and materials unless you can sell them really fast.

He wasn't correct about the copy bottleneck, it is about 50/50, however a copy alt will increase your isk per h substantially for copy bottle-necked items (and you will be able to make use of pos bonuses to manufacture).

Item choice is critical and you need about 2-3 items and revise them every week or so, since the market is very changeable (using market trend metric will help you pick items that stay profitable for longer). Selling them will be a major bottleneck, so pick wisely.

PPH that you are looking for is easy - 600+ (does not include pos manufacture bonus or implants, you want both) Ideally you will want the total SVR of your item portfolio to be above 5. This means that there is room in the market for 5 people producing 10x24/7. Also take note of the manufacturing time * run number, the longer the better since it means less clicking.

So it is not easy, but if you like logistical challenges, having turnover on that sort of scale is very rewarding Lol.


Diiananon
Doomheim
#83 - 2012-01-25 12:52:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Diiananon
hi, just wondering why here the data interface shows up as 0 isk?

http://www.eve-market-guide.com/t2item.php?id=11978
Casper Blake
Casper Blake and Sons Manufacturing
#84 - 2012-01-25 13:08:45 UTC
Diiananon wrote:
hi, just wondering why here the data interface shows up as 0 isk?

http://www.eve-market-guide.com/t2item.php?id=11978


I would imagine it's because the data interface is not consumed on use, and as such, is difficult to calculate the cost.

If you assume that you can sell the data interface back for the price you bought it for, the only cost is the income you could have made from the isk you've had tied up in the interface, I would think.
Jes Visuit
Private Investment Holdings Inc
#85 - 2012-01-27 11:35:26 UTC
Eve Tycoon II wrote:
@Jes Visuit
There are two ways of doing the invention. One is to do some stuff from time to time, use some of it, sell the rest. This is what most of eve does, and it will make you perhaps 100-200 mil per month (plus side is that as scrapyard said, you will be able to use public slots). This is a good option for new characters, but if you want to commit then you can make much more.

If you want to make a bil per week you need to mass produce, and by that I do mean freigtherloads of stuff. I detailed the setup in my guides section (about 500mil in pos and modules), plus a freighter or a contract with somebody who will deliver stuff that you need and take away the products so that you don't run on empty.

Scrapyard was correct about the turnover, you will be turning over about 5 bil per week for most items, this means you will need to keep about 2 bil in produce and materials unless you can sell them really fast.

He wasn't correct about the copy bottleneck, it is about 50/50, however a copy alt will increase your isk per h substantially for copy bottle-necked items (and you will be able to make use of pos bonuses to manufacture).

Item choice is critical and you need about 2-3 items and revise them every week or so, since the market is very changeable (using market trend metric will help you pick items that stay profitable for longer). Selling them will be a major bottleneck, so pick wisely.

PPH that you are looking for is easy - 600+ (does not include pos manufacture bonus or implants, you want both) Ideally you will want the total SVR of your item portfolio to be above 5. This means that there is room in the market for 5 people producing 10x24/7. Also take note of the manufacturing time * run number, the longer the better since it means less clicking.

So it is not easy, but if you like logistical challenges, having turnover on that sort of scale is very rewarding Lol.




Thank you for this response, however, can you give me an indication of what the RL effort is here?

Dealing with freighter loads of stuff usually entails at least an hour's effort per load - purchasing, divving the mats, getting the mats to a POS (assuming the actual shipping is being outsourced).

In addition it sounds like there is a bit of continuous market monitoring involved to ID new products - I imagine this is a couple of hours / week of effort.

Then assuming there isn't too much 0.01 isking pumping through 5 bil worth of stuff will probably be another 5 hours of order management.

Then there is the clicky with the bpcs and invention, maybe 2 hours / week in total?

Does that put the RL effort at around 12 hours per week for approx 1 bil profit?
Eve Tycoon II
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-01-29 23:25:04 UTC
That would be a good ballpark figure, but all of those tasks can be optimized, for example you don't need to sit in jita to 0.01 isk, you can use trading skills or alt+tab every 10 minutes.

1. Purchasing was never very hard for me, just multiply the material need by runs and load.
2. If you don't own a freighter make sure you don't pick stuff with high mineral volumes, you dont want to spend hours shifting trit to the pos.
3. The webiste evolved from my private scripts to do that exact thing. The trick is to pick a profitable item, that will sell in volumes, and is not overpriced (hence the columns on the webiste).
4. About half an hour of intensive clicking and hauling for 10 slots.
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-01-30 11:42:45 UTC
Great site but def lacking several rig blue prints. Luckily you can get a good threshold based on the blueprint there, almost as if there was one per category instead of repeating.
Gargerth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-02-07 06:36:51 UTC
I occasionaly check this site as a kind of double check of my spreadsheet. Today I noticed that the decryptor Collision Measurements is showing an invention chance of over 50%. This results in that being the best decrytor for alot of T2 Gallente ships. I see similar results for the other equivalent racial decryptors.

Is this an error? I belive that decryptor to only have a +10% modifier to invention chance. That would be about 35% chance with all lvl 5 skills.

Thanks for your effort
Eve Tycoon II
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-02-12 01:55:22 UTC
Thanks for letting me know about it. It looks like the update to crucible bpos sneaked in a couple of errors in base chance of invention. Should be all fixed now.

If you actually see a case of wrong decryptor being selected then PM me the calculations, but make sure you took all the bottlenecks into account.
James Boeing
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-02-15 10:24:09 UTC
Hey, you've got a great tool here. I realise that this is a big ask, but could you add data for Dodixie and other trade hubs. This would really help not just me, but for traders in Amarr space hugely.

Thanks Lol
Mnengli Noiliffe
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-02-16 07:46:30 UTC
it's funny how people see great profits for an item on the site, start inventing/producing it, and by the time they (as well as everyone else) finish production and dump it all at the market, price falls to barely profitable level.
Bihto Anttila
Einstein-Rosen Bridge Industries
#92 - 2012-02-19 00:58:29 UTC
I'm quite the new player but I have a few questions about your manufacturing tool that I couldn't find the answers to on the site.

How is profit per hour calculated exactly? Since the numbers can go negative, is the cost of buying the materials factored into it, or what? If that's the case, is there any way to factor in generating the materials for yourself instead, via salvagin/mining?
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#93 - 2012-02-19 12:51:57 UTC
Bihto Anttila wrote:
How is profit per hour calculated exactly? Since the numbers can go negative, is the cost of buying the materials factored into it, or what? If that's the case, is there any way to factor in generating the materials for yourself instead, via salvagin/mining?


Stuff you mine/salvage yourself is not free. It has a market value.

Let's assume that you have an item that requires exactly 1000 Tritanium to make. So you go out and mine 333 Veldspar. You now have the following choices:

a) Sell the Veldspar, as is for 11.90 ISK/u, giving you a total of 3962.70 ISK.

b) Refine and sell the Tritanium for 4.36 ISK/u. You get 4360.00 ISK, for not much extra effort.

c) Make a batch of something (100 units, from the 1000 Tritanium), where each unit sells for 41.37 ISK/u, gaining you a total of 4137.00 ISK. Plus you had to tie up one of your precious manufacturing slots in order to do so.

d) Make a different product (100 units, from the 1000 Tritanium) at a unit sell price of 47.50 ISK/u. Giving you a total of 4750 ISK.

If you're making things at a loss - then you're either economically-challenged or really happy on making a particular item or fall into the MIMAF trap (Minerals I Mine Are Free). In which case, please just give away all your ISK so others can put it to good use making items that are profitable.

You should always value your inputs as if you had to purchase them from sell orders (either in Jita or the nearest trade hub). If you can't turn a suitable profit per line per week using those input prices, then make something else.

There aren't many exceptions to the above rule (irrational attachment to making a particular item, logistical issues in obtaining/moving products, being in an isolated market, contract requiring you to create X units of Y, etc.).
Progray
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2012-02-19 19:04:52 UTC
In Manufacturing section when trying to manufacture a t2 item setting ME to negative has no effect, it resets to 0 and shows wrong material requirements. Rather inconvinient sinse t2 bpcs are usually with a negative ME.
Ken Sunji
RCL
REKKINGCREW.
#95 - 2012-02-20 02:58:56 UTC
Hey dude,

Can we get an update please? How is the automation of the update progressing?

Keep up the good work!
Serpentine Logic
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2012-02-22 14:20:07 UTC
The invention search seems off. If I tick a few research skills, it gives me all the items that use at least one of those skills, rather than items whose skills are in the list.

tldr; sql needs less OR and more IN
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-02-22 21:07:02 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
There aren't many exceptions to the above rule (irrational attachment to making a particular item, logistical issues in obtaining/moving products, being in an isolated market, contract requiring you to create X units of Y, etc.).


I'd add a few things to that list:

-Trouble selling the intermediary product. You may want to price minerals as the same as buy orders depending on what it is. Or you might just not be able to unload the quantities you can make but you could make it into something and sell the finished products.
-Transactions costs. These should be tiny, except in the case of PI. There's a lot of cases where making P4 from P3 isn't profitable and making those P3s from P2s isn't, but making the P4s from P2s on the same planet is because you cut out the import/export taxes on the P3s.
degini
Yo-Yodine Propulsion Systems
#98 - 2012-03-02 03:08:45 UTC
The layout of your website is fantastic, but I haven't had a chance to make use of it as the market data is over a week old.

Can we get an update? Is it possible for the price data to be automatically updated?

Cheers!
Finjil
Titan's Pain and Pleasure
Invidia Gloriae Comes
#99 - 2012-03-12 10:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Finjil
degini wrote:
The layout of your website is fantastic, but I haven't had a chance to make use of it as the market data is over a week old.

Can we get an update? Is it possible for the price data to be automatically updated?

Cheers!


I could not say better. Need more often updates, 17 days since last update make this good site useless.
Finjil
Titan's Pain and Pleasure
Invidia Gloriae Comes
#100 - 2012-03-12 10:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Finjil
damn lag...