Ships & Modules

Frankly Minmatar has been too good for a few years, so in the normal way of things the nerfbat of doom will smack them into oblivion for a few years.

The upside is that it looks like armour tanking + speed is going to be viable again - especially if the rig changes happen.

Also the one thing about minnie is that you probably have a broad spectrum of skills anyway so cross-training isn't as painful as it could be.

tl;dr its not the end of the world

I'd fly a TD Stabber. Hell it's probably the only way I'd fly a Stabber. I should have run the numbers on that Omen vs a Rupture last night, because I'm a bit skeptical that the Rupture wouldn't win/get away based on the Omen's ****** cap - even with the cap booster.

-Liang

I'd fly the Stabber for exactly the reasons you cite. Because they're generally true and I can probably get a few kills out of it. Also, it's fun to kick someone's ass in a ****** ship that should just roll over and die.

I'm not saying it's a *good fit*. I'm saying *I'd fly it*. Totally different.

-Liang

Ed: I want to be clear: I wouldn't be flying his particular varient. But I would fly a TD Stabber.

I have a arty rupture just like that in my hangar? And no the TD arty rupture is better than the omen against all turret ships?


I probably wouldn't fly a stabber in general, but if i did it would be like that.





(Also if its a shield omen you don't even need the TD as the omen will have 3 ehp)

You seriously live in a bubble.

Just because you troll amamakes belts doesnt mean everyone does. I've spent 8 months trying to find 'different' PVP given that i started as a lo-sec pirate and then went into null-sec and then fleet warfare.

here's what i found:
-Fight's in belts are 90% NPC'er ganks, noobs ganks, or elaborate traps. Oh, sometimes you kill mining ships.
-0.0 you spend most of your time hunting for targets and your fights happen when you tackle them on a gate. Or if they land in a bubble. Here you face 2 scenario's. 1. You have sufficient tackle to hold them off gate, but then you are simply brawling. 2 You aren't a brawler and they can re-approach. Then the "HE'S AGGRESSED" game starts.
-Losec is a nice game of "Who wants gate gun agro".
-fighting -5's is again another game of "agress me cuz i dun wanna get gun agro"
-PVP is generally quite ganky. Either you are ganking people or a larger gang is trying to gank you. Forcing errors out of an over-confident gang has nothing to do with ship balance. Most ships can do that. Hell, people make entire video's of themselves smashing targets who dont expect them to have a chance. Garmon/Kil2 make a career out of it.

Overall PVP is supposed to be un-consensual in EVE but the ability to frag-warp and use covops cloaks while warping to 0 makes a lie of this. I flew with the rancer guys for a month or so. The end result taught me a lot despite playing this game for years.

I have no way of succinctly or eloquently summing this up but the truth of it is: Very rarely do you need to commit to a fight and have no option to leave it unless you are heavily outnumbered. Most of the time people base arguments on situations that are rare.

Go and spend 2 months trying to fight people who fundamentally don't want to fight and you'll start to understand what i mean. You've seen a good bunch of gate camping no doubt liang, so you know that you basicalyl cant catch people who don't want to be caught and have a modicum of skill at pulling it off. Smart bombs are the only exception.

p.s.

Serious shut up with this condor argument. Smashing a terribad nano-fit arby doesnt make it suddenly OP. Situationally the ship is amazing, like all kiting ships. That's a close range ship thats fit for long range speed tanking using destructible damage. He has 3 decisions to make and made them all wrong. If this guy hadn't warped to a belt like a spaz he would have been able to jump out... reinforcing my above argument

Against a well fit proteus (to address the other condor lover) 2 perfect skilled condors will take nearly 17 minutes to kill it. in 17 minutes that guy could have moved (17*60*950)/1000=969 KM depending on how well they juggle capactior. If he rushes 2 condors on a belt/planet and cant get backup within 17 minutes from an alt or friends then he is an idiot and died because he was fighting for no reason for no reward.

But you know, this post will be skimmed and then someone will reply with a situational argument that they think counters it, maybe with a killboard link to a low IQ player who made multiple mistakes and was punished for it. Im making arguments as to why Minmatar aren't as OP as people think in a real PVP climate. If you want to argue that player skill > game balance then ill agree. But that doesn't mean you're argument is valid in a BALANCE DISCUSSION THREAD.

Because YOU cant get fights in eve doesnt mean that other people cant. Its amazingly easy to get a fight nowadays. People will engage you everywhere, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UG6a0uahTA&feature=player_embedded as an example of a proteus thats in a belt) and if you dont like liangs kill how about: http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=15947338 ?



Edit: yes no condors, but condors and hookbills are quite similar!

The only thing i do in this game is PVP. If it's financial, it's to fund PVP. Loosing ships happens, but its undeniable that most of eve are not arguing these point. most of eve doesn't give a **** about what we're talking about. most of eve only cares about not loosing ships and winning via Blobing people.

And people sitting at a plex is the height of stupidity in terms of PVP. Drop a can when you warp in to mess up cloakies and make sure you are ready to align out. Why? Because people who "love PVP" will bring more ships than you with a fitting designed to specifically win the fight before it's even started. At that point it becomes ganking, not fighting.

The best fights i get are the ones that i have the opposition convinced that they can win, then turn it around. In all honesty though - removing warp to 0 would proabably shut me up - cause i don't find waiting 2-5 hours to find someone who WANTS to PVP fun, especially when most of them have friends, links or a cyno. Nor do i find being -10 just to get fights in losec fun since i like to roam all around eve and enjoy hi-sec opportunities as well.

The only way to get reliable fights in eve is to give people to have something to fight for - solo pilots can move with relative safety through any non-bubbled hi, low or null sec area. They don't have to defend themself or have friends defend them. If i joined a null-sec corp within the next 10 minutes. I could have a battleship, several smaller ships and plenty of fitting and MYSELF in their hom system with an hour. You pod yourself to a station and a jump freightor fills up and brings every over in minutes.

CCP are slowly removing every reason to even be IN SPACE doing things. Everything used to be a danger and, as such, created a need for combat readiness at all times (Hell, i used to rat in PVP fit because in a slow ship friendly space could become unfriendly in the time it took to approach a gate). This fueled Eve's PVP. It simply feels like a shadow of it's former self now.

P.s.

Tuskers KB link - so you did what? baited a trap with a plated neut domi then zerg rushed them in hookbills? (who - by the way - used missiles, like a condor... but otherwise share no similarity)

Domi was full gun fit, and no it only is on our side because it shot at the thorax, otherwise we were fighting it aswell, yet due to lots of lighdrones it forced us out of scram range and mjded away.

(hookbill/condor are both fast kíting frigates, mwd bill fit need a mid to be capstable and thus has two free midslots, condor is capstable as it is, and has two spare midslots)


And no, as i see it you are just bad at getting fights!

I think eve-is-easy is a bit of an understatement. I think eve is braindead mostly :/

I used to get into all sorts of sh*t a few years back - including catching battleships on gates and getting into some serious fights using only an interceptor.

You honestly think you get more action these days? Remember pre warp-to-0 we had about 25k average concurrent users.

he would have killed liang if he was solo (and unlinked), and if the arby had more then 5 light drones. (cant kill them fast enough if they are bonused) and not all condors are kitefit.

You can get lots of gfs atm (like the vid i posted). If you cant your doing it wrong.