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Minmatar are going to become the crap, CCP wants retribution not balance
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bigboy boss
Doomheim
#101 - 2013-01-21 18:32:40 UTC
Carlos Jaegar wrote:
I actually really like the new Cyclone, looking forward to the patch.


Any reason besides just feelings?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#102 - 2013-01-21 18:32:56 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Actually high falloff + damage type selection has allowed for higher real DPS than other races have been capable of fielding. Yeah you aren't getting full EFT DPS out of it but you're not exactly hindered by it since the TE buff.

-Liang


That real DPS was based on a range and speed advantage which is slowly evaporating.


No, the damage was never based on that. The damage was based on TEs, ACs, and damage type selection.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
bigboy boss
Doomheim
#103 - 2013-01-21 18:35:49 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Rupture *was* awesome, and now it's merely good. Not WTFOP, but simply good. It's good for kiting, good for brawling - it'll never really be in a situation that it's actively bad, just as it won't be in one that's actively awesome. There's value in that too, you know.

-Liang


Something is "good" in relation to its competition.

If the competition is better at everything while the rupture is always subpar... That makes the rupture weak.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#104 - 2013-01-21 18:39:18 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Rupture *was* awesome, and now it's merely good. Not WTFOP, but simply good. It's good for kiting, good for brawling - it'll never really be in a situation that it's actively bad, just as it won't be in one that's actively awesome. There's value in that too, you know.

-Liang


TBH i think flying it in a 7km orbit with a web, scram, and TE is the only way it will consistently win against other cruisers of similar skill.

Works for the hookbill.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#105 - 2013-01-21 18:41:20 UTC
bigboy boss wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Rupture *was* awesome, and now it's merely good. Not WTFOP, but simply good. It's good for kiting, good for brawling - it'll never really be in a situation that it's actively bad, just as it won't be in one that's actively awesome. There's value in that too, you know.

-Liang


Something is "good" in relation to its competition.

If the competition is better at everything while the rupture is always subpar... That makes the rupture weak.


What I'm trying to get at is that the Rupture is pretty good at everything when compared to the entire field of competition. It may not take #1 at any particular thing (though really the jury should still be out on this), but it does pretty well at everything.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Klown Walk
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-01-21 18:42:03 UTC
Why do you compare rails to ac?, compare it to arty instead. I have an arty rupture that goes 2,8k+ m/s with heat and 18k optimal + 36km falloff.
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#107 - 2013-01-21 18:45:05 UTC
Does anyone have a link to the dev blog that points out the changes to BCs?

I like that they are doing balancing of ships, but I absolutely hate that they are doing it in away that completely changes a ship from gun to missile platform. I think this is a pretty terrible thing to do as a lot of people have found roles for certain ships. I.e. the Cyclone was an amazing ship with HG crystal + pill + large booster. Would tank like no other, have decent dps, and had the surprise factor as most people weren't expecting a cyclone in the first place.

Highly disappointed if this is the case.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#108 - 2013-01-21 18:47:27 UTC
There's no Dev Blog out, but a Dev post https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191595&find=unread

Also guys, you are arguing with a troll who has never flown any ship into combat.

.
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#109 - 2013-01-21 18:48:03 UTC
Roime wrote:
There's no Dev Blog out, but a Dev post https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191595&find=unread

Also guys, you are arguing with a troll who has never flown any ship into combat.



Thanks very much.
bigboy boss
Doomheim
#110 - 2013-01-21 18:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: bigboy boss
-snip-
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#111 - 2013-01-21 18:48:42 UTC
It's not a dev blog - it's a dev post in features and ideas. Here's a link: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191595&find=unread

Also: my first objection was to the Cyclone change. My second was to the super nerfhammer of doom to the Harbinger.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#112 - 2013-01-21 18:57:01 UTC
I have every expectation that the Harb will get increased fitting grid before going out the door.
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#113 - 2013-01-21 18:59:49 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
It's not a dev blog - it's a dev post in features and ideas. Here's a link: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191595&find=unread

Also: my first objection was to the Cyclone change. My second was to the super nerfhammer of doom to the Harbinger.

-Liang



The changes to the harby don't look all that bad when you look at all the other ships. It loses some tank, gains some mass, but also will have higher DPS, and a lot better cap management.

Should still be pretty decent.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#114 - 2013-01-21 19:04:24 UTC
Armor Changes

This may change quite a few perceptions all the way around.
bigboy boss
Doomheim
#115 - 2013-01-21 19:11:21 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Armor Changes

This may change quite a few perceptions all the way around.


Oh wow, so now my armor omen will be even better!

Another nail in the coffin for the rupture.
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#116 - 2013-01-21 19:12:28 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Armor Changes

This may change quite a few perceptions all the way around.



Trip rep Myrm with the new armor rep mod + rig will be O.o
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#117 - 2013-01-21 19:24:41 UTC
Noone would ever put a tracking disruptor in one of the Rupture's four mid slots. Ever. And the MARSB still requires cap to use- so have fun with an armor repper, cap booster, plate and guns on an Omen.

My 250mm rail Moa puts out 500 DPS to 23 km and has 30k EHP. OP? It is helpless at point blank range and needs someone to tackle. It's great against kitey caracals and omens though Blink. Fit and counterfit. The new skills, rigs, and modules make the Rupture a true wild card though. Which is what Minmatar is all about.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2013-01-21 20:50:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
You know, I remember when Minmatar were considered the worst race for a long time (Rifter excepted, as until recently it was the king of frigates).

And you know what was even more interesting?

People feared fighting them.

They feared them because the people flying them were sh*t hot PVPers, who were taking ships that were noticably bad and doing serious damage with them by flying them to their strengths and coming up with interesting fits and tactics.


My point with all this?

So what if they're getting nerfed a bit, CCP have overbuffed them by lots of various direct and indirect buffs and are now fixing it, but they're still going to be very capable ships in the hands of good pilots.

The question is whether you think you can rise to the challenge like the pilots of old by proving that they're still deadly ships in the hands of a skilled pilot, or if you're going to sit and whine about losing your various advantages and proving to the world you're not the skilled pilot you make yourself out to be.

The decision is yours.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#119 - 2013-01-21 20:52:52 UTC
You remember that weird pride when someone was like: "Yeah, I fly the Phoon. What of it?". Lol

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#120 - 2013-01-21 20:56:16 UTC
They better not mess with the phoon's sig radius (320m) or overall speed.