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Minmatar are going to become the crap, CCP wants retribution not balance
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Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#181 - 2013-01-22 21:28:33 UTC
Links will correct themselves soon enough. Just a playful poke. Karl in particular has taken to me the same way the croc took to Cpt. Hook.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#182 - 2013-01-22 21:30:36 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Links will correct themselves soon enough. Just a playful poke. Karl in particular has taken to me the same way the croc took to Cpt. Hook.


I can't wait for links to eat a big fat nerf. And I don't mean the off grid links, because getting links on grid is not that hard. AAAALLLLLLL links need to eat a giant ******* nerf.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2013-01-22 21:53:08 UTC
Links have counters, they are called virtues!

(just force them out of the pos and away from stations/gates/pos)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#184 - 2013-01-22 21:55:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Yes, let's move to the next door system where they join the next link fleet. -_- I don't think people really understand how out of control links can be around Amamake (and not just IN Amamake or by Heretics).

-Liang

Ed: But it's ok because everyone in Amarr/Minnie space is a total nublet that doesn't know how to PVP or have any SP. Lol

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#185 - 2013-01-22 22:11:20 UTC
Shocked
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2013-01-22 22:11:59 UTC
True, some of my corp m8s dont like this area at all, cause of links beeing everywhere. Whenever i go there tho its usually a slaughter of people throwing expensive stuff at me and beeing quite bad. (people with links who arent in a pos usually mean a free tech3 killmail)
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#187 - 2013-01-22 22:39:10 UTC
So this conversation is steering away from "PVP" and into "pay 2 win". links vs non-links is abouta s close to ganking as you can get outside a blob.

Are you trying to convince people to come fight or leave and not bother?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#188 - 2013-01-22 23:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Maeltstome wrote:
So this conversation is steering away from "PVP" and into "pay 2 win". links vs non-links is abouta s close to ganking as you can get outside a blob.

Are you trying to convince people to come fight or leave and not bother?


You don't even have the first clue what pay to win means if you think Eve is anything of the sort. As to links vs non links being a gank: not really. I think it depends a lot on what's going on and what's being fielded. A T1 frig is still a T1 frig, even if it's linked.

I honestly don't know how you ever get a fight if you're afraid to ever engage someone on the chance they might have a trap, blob, links, or whatever floating around. Ohwai---

-Liang

Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Shocked


Including you!!! ;-)

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#189 - 2013-01-22 23:06:53 UTC
Now now- I have no issues finding a fight or getting into one. I'm doing decently this month even if my computer is in the shop.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#190 - 2013-01-22 23:09:46 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

(Also if its a shield omen you don't even need the TD as the omen will have 3 ehp)


The Shield Omen should have ~18-19K EHP, which puts it on par with the Thorax. That should give it roughly the same TTL as the Thorax (~77 sec?). However, it does considerably more damage at range while it has capacitor. Even still, I'd be honestly surprised if it had enough cap to actually kill the Rupture.

-Liang



Uhm, i never ONCE condoned the use of thoraxes for kiting <.< I was saying that a dual LSE arty rupture would violate a shield omen.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2013-01-22 23:24:45 UTC
You cant fit a real duallse arty rupture tho, not enough pg. So you have to gimp on either dps or tank which means the omen should usually win.
bigboy boss
Doomheim
#192 - 2013-01-22 23:26:55 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
New cyclone will be pretty awesome. Single xlasb ham kiting fits are pretty much like faster podla drakes of old, with dual medium neuts more speed and agility with more ehp once the booster has run through and more cap! Even a buffer fit is reasonable well off.

Harbi gets buffed and if you know how to use it it already is one of the best bcs out there (600dps to 30km, 45k ehp, faster then a podla drake (2k with lg snaes/links) + medium neut+ more drones). Its on paper dps may not reach cane + hail lvl but due to its projection it is simply awesome (its like a kiting omen with twice the ehp and 50% more dps)!

Stabber sucks at actual pvp but its awesome at what its supposed to be, a training vessal for the cyna/vaga and it does this perfectly.


Yes minmatar ships get/got nerfed, but who cares. Angel ships still rule, they have the best cs, very good dessies, the arty wolf/thrasher. The best dictor and pretty cool bs! The new cyclone will be boss.


Yeah, you are missing the part where the cyclone has two less missile launchers than the "old podla drakes".
Its DPS is going to be barely higher than a caracal. I will miss my cyclones with guns on them. If I wanted to use missiles as a primary weapon I'd fly caldari.

The new cyclone won't be what you expect it to be, minmatar might have "cool" BS but that doesn't make them good. The CS are going to also be balanced soon, so don't expect them to be the best anymore.

Yes harb is going to be a beast (its already great), I think I heard a few people say they are "destroying the harb", rofl noobs.
bigboy boss
Doomheim
#193 - 2013-01-22 23:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: bigboy boss
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
bigboy boss wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The omen is bad, the only thing it can do semi decently is kite because scorch is OP. But even that its really bad at because it can't both have speed and tank. Most Omen fits that actually work are absolutely do or die vs brawlers AND will lose to any other kiter.

The tracking is ****, the cap is ****, the tank is ****. The only thing the omen has is damage projection and even there its still not as good as a HAM caracal.


If you want to kite the Caracal is absolute king.

EDIT: Also if you're using the thorax to kite with blasters you should biomass.


Mega wrong.

The amount of raging noobs in this thread is astounding. Lol

Omen sucks? Settle down children.





Sigh.. lets do this one at a time (Ignoring all the badposts you made after this one because i really cannot be arsed)


Since you seem to enjoy comparing numbers i pretty much agree that a plated omen can beat a kiting rupture (tbh i don't think the kiting rupture is a really good fit anymore) But a plated omen loses to any other armor ship. (And don't try to say you will kite them, any competent cruiser pilot will catch/escape from a omen going 20% faster than they are) And if they get on top of you you're dead because the omen cannot apply dps to other cruisers at close range without a web, it just doesn't.

Also "Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400" "cap stable" EFT is lying to you, you're not cap stable, not even close.


But i'm guess what you want is a minmatar cruiser fit that will beat your omen? A kiting one? alright

[Rupture, New Setup 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Large Shield Extender II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP M
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5


Stats are irrelevant, your range with scorch is 12, you die.


What about the stabber (which truly is bad)

[Stabber, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Seriously the stats on this thing are TERRIBLE, it will still **** your omen

It will be even worse with an armor dual prop rupture (Or even stabber) both will catch you if the pilot is competent..

And both will violate the omen as you will be doing absolutely zip damage.

Omen looks good on paper, The Rupture IS good.





rofl. And you accuse me of badposting?


The only thing you proved is that TD is good.

Put that TD on another ship and it will do the same thing.

Rupture still stinks. Do you know my solution to your TD rupture? Just fly away in your armor omen and warp off. Because the rupture is so damn slow even 1600mm armor tanked ships can escape. (And with the new armor buffs, expect my armor omen to be even faster.) LolLolLol

Or if you bloodthirsty you just burn next to that slow rupture and destroy his pathetic tank and tank his pathetic DPS because of the silly fit he has.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2013-01-22 23:37:29 UTC
bigboy boss wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
New cyclone will be pretty awesome. Single xlasb ham kiting fits are pretty much like faster podla drakes of old, with dual medium neuts more speed and agility with more ehp once the booster has run through and more cap! Even a buffer fit is reasonable well off.

Harbi gets buffed and if you know how to use it it already is one of the best bcs out there (600dps to 30km, 45k ehp, faster then a podla drake (2k with lg snaes/links) + medium neut+ more drones). Its on paper dps may not reach cane + hail lvl but due to its projection it is simply awesome (its like a kiting omen with twice the ehp and 50% more dps)!

Stabber sucks at actual pvp but its awesome at what its supposed to be, a training vessal for the cyna/vaga and it does this perfectly.


Yes minmatar ships get/got nerfed, but who cares. Angel ships still rule, they have the best cs, very good dessies, the arty wolf/thrasher. The best dictor and pretty cool bs! The new cyclone will be boss.


Yeah, you are missing the part where the cyclone has two less missile launchers than the "old podla drakes".
Its DPS is going to be barely higher than a caracal. I will miss my cyclones with guns on them. If I wanted to use missiles as a primary weapon I'd fly caldari.

The new cyclone won't be what you expect it to be, minmatar might have "cool" BS but that doesn't make them good. The CS are going to also be balanced soon, so don't expect them to be the best anymore.

Yes harb is going to be a beast (its already great), I think I heard a few people say they are "destroying the harb", rofl noobs.



It gets more drone bays tho and damage selction, it does exactly as much dps as a current drake with a buffer fit

[NEW Cyclone, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Valkyrie II x5


, having 10k ehp less then a podla drake, while beeing faster, more agile and having dual medium neuts. or it does 40dps less then the current podla drake but has way more hp (xlasb fit)

[NEW Cyclone, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Valkyrie II x5

(around 66k ehp in total after the asb cyled through)
bigboy boss
Doomheim
#195 - 2013-01-22 23:43:06 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


It gets more drone bays tho and damage selction, it does exactly as much dps as a current drake with a buffer fit

[NEW Cyclone, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Valkyrie II x5


, having 10k ehp less then a podla drake, while beeing faster, more agile and having dual medium neuts. or it does 40dps less then the current podla drake but has way more hp (xlasb fit)

[NEW Cyclone, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Valkyrie II x5

(around 66k ehp in total after the asb cyled through)


What are you using to get these setups?
bigboy boss
Doomheim
#196 - 2013-01-22 23:47:04 UTC
Othran wrote:
Frankly Minmatar has been too good for a few years, so in the normal way of things the nerfbat of doom will smack them into oblivion for a few years.

The upside is that it looks like armour tanking + speed is going to be viable again - especially if the rig changes happen.

Also the one thing about minnie is that you probably have a broad spectrum of skills anyway so cross-training isn't as painful as it could be.

tl;dr its not the end of the world


Giving different races turns to be good is horrible game design philosophy and hurts the long term health of the game.

Why do you think a game like SC:Brood War was so great? It has three completely different races, and they were extremely well balanced.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2013-01-22 23:49:25 UTC
bigboy boss wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


It gets more drone bays tho and damage selction, it does exactly as much dps as a current drake with a buffer fit

[NEW Cyclone, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Valkyrie II x5


, having 10k ehp less then a podla drake, while beeing faster, more agile and having dual medium neuts. or it does 40dps less then the current podla drake but has way more hp (xlasb fit)

[NEW Cyclone, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Valkyrie II x5

(around 66k ehp in total after the asb cyled through)


What are you using to get these setups?


eft
bigboy boss
Doomheim
#198 - 2013-01-22 23:51:07 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


eft


offtopic but how did you get the new ship changes to work for it? Was there a new release?

I'd like to examine this new cyclone so I can tell you why it sucks XD.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2013-01-22 23:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
Namamai;675411 wrote:

About two hours ahead of you :P Install over EFT 2.17.1. You guys know the drill.

[url]http://www.bittervet.com/eve/eftfiles/RetriBCs_08jan2013_Append.zip[/url]
[url]http://www.bittervet.com/eve/eftfiles/RetriBCs_08jan2013_Replace.zip[/url]
bigboy boss
Doomheim
#200 - 2013-01-23 00:03:45 UTC
Ty