Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Rellik B00n

if you would use my suggested system, they cant really do that, they could only affect it like a reall economy... example if they bought up every possible production and research slot in entire universe, it cost them so much ISK, that they need to get it back out on the market, if they dident they bankrupt themself... and this is the beuty of it all, its self regulating like a market is, yes they can stomp in and do nasty things with their might, but they cant shut you down... they get control, just not absolute control... there must be some mechanic where they can affect people that "hide" NPC corps that affect them... actions and consequense, on the other side i agree with you also, that it needs to be a balance to this so high sec isent gulped up also... but if i understand OP, He want the anbility to put hurt on enemies that use NPC corps to fuel enemies war effort etc...

This basically. The empire indy alt is one of the most common isk makers (and isk savers) used by 0.0 alliance members.

Even the 0.0 crews active in empire from time to time (goon ice breaking parties for example) run without many of the bene's of their 0.0 setup. This would jsut give their empire interests a nice boost. A boost they don't need imo.

Player corporations in control of a station has zero impact on the new player.

I suggest nothing that limits anyone from being able to do anything.
No one would be forced to do anything.
You can stay in the NPC corp and mine your heart out.

I just think the player controlled corporation should be the one respncible for taxing you when you go to refine that ore.

I would even give player corporations the ability to upgrade an asteroid belt. Before an upgrade it would be standard concentration ores, and the player corp in control of a station in that system can upgrade it to have the higher concentration ones.

All the ore would be available, as well as the minerals.
Player corporations would be responcible for the effective yeild of a belt though.

You would still have CONCORD, NPC corps, and the ability for NPC corps members to mine those belts and build T2 goods.

Who owns it shouldn't make much difference to you beyond, "is someone nearby offering cheaper lines, lower tax, and better belts." If they are, you go there.

Well. I agree with you here. It doesn't make much since for a superpower to split its resources too thin. That's when they start falling. It still doesn't solve the problem for the new of the new though. New players would be inclined to join a PC of some kind in this situation. The problem is getting into one worth their salt when you are a week old? Yeah.



Do you count PVE as missions/incursions only?

I'm just going to leave nullsec stuff alone 'cause I don't really know much about it. I've already voiced my uninformed opinion. :P



I'm not the person who wishes to stay in an NPC corp. Just feel the need to clarify that. In fact the only reason my industry characters are there is because I have no reason to leave the NPC corps. At all. My point is this is not always an easy task. Especially if you are a week old. Really you have few options. I'm not saying there are no options, it's just there are few.



I do like the idea. I'm just not sure if it can be implemented without completely shunning out real newbies. There is already as serious barrier between most veterans and newbies in this game. As for me. I've been playing about a year. Haven't had real time to situate myself in game due to real life. Such is life.

It has been suggested in another thread, which didn't go over very well, a few holes were poked in it.

As for the system working, why are you in your NPC corp?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Category:NPC_corporations

just in case its tl;dr for you the relevant line is:

Please note: NPC corporations are not meant for human players. The only time you are allowed or intended to be part of an NPC corporation is when you leave a player corp, in which case the NPC corporation acts as a placeholder until you find a new one.

I'd link the other thread with the suggestion you made, but thats what the search function is for.

And this isn't about getting a small pocket you can hide in and post a sign saying "girls keep out" or the like, its about empowering highsec residents, and letting them be the biggest part of eve, and proud of it. They are the biggest part. and they're the least visible, because NPC corps outshine the player owned ones.

And thats a pretty DULL shine

Good on you, thats the spirit. Most people make good use of NPC corps that way. I've got 4 accounts, and this is the least useful, so i use it for posting. I've been dumped back into this NPC corp because I couldn't be online enough to help my old corpmates, so I trimmed the fat for them and droped out. Now i'm back for a time, but not long enough to get back into the rhythm of nullsec.

When i can come back for a good solid time, I'm back there as fast as i can fill out the 4 apps for my mains. All my character slots are filled, they're just too useful. But every time I'm forced by circumstance to stay in highsec ( which makes my skin crawl after being used to null for so long) I'm saddened by what happened to make your posting toon needed.

Happened to me a few times before i gave up and joined a corp that I'll be proud to join again. If highsec had given me better, I might have stayed. If it had more to offer, some RL friends would have played longer than their second wardecced corp dissolution.

All the more reason to note that the system is broken, and its been broken for longer than I've been playing the game.

Your previous post stated it perfectly, and thats what this thread is about. Something entirely new for highsec corps to own and fight over. It also lets NPC corp characters find a place for themselves, but make and do more if they join, or are supporting their player owned corp station of choice.

A Deadspace pocket kingdom would be no solution, its just a mini null and anything you put in there would be blown up because it wouldn't affect the opportunist that found it and blew it up first. It would be killboard padding, and thats a race industrialists lose more often then not.

Keep in mind, Goonwaffe has guys joining EVE, and from day one they're playing in null. Some corps won't let the new guy, yes, but not everyone.

The new guy would still have the NPC space, they'd still be able to do everything they're doing.
Ther's a ton of systems in high sec, and that's a ton of stations. Just .7 and below could make it so that high sec corps can't be that exclusive, and need even the new guy in order to fill their numbers.

I consider PvE to be anything that doesn't invovle actively shooting other people.
I know guys around here like to argue that, "everying in EVE is PvP, even market trading!" I'm not one of them. Ther's competition in things like the market, but it's not what most people would really consider to be "PvP".

Ratting, mission running, exploration, plexes, anoms, incursions, mining, bulding, research, invention.

PvE is actually a concern for me, as I think that null has grown to large for CCP to keep funelling players into specific sytems for PvE content, and they need to give corporations the ability to upgrade a system to have mission agents; so that null systems will have more people flying around in them.

It's a game of sharks and minnows. PvE generates minnows, the roaming gangs are sharks. CCP created an enviroment where the majority of minnows have nothing to eat where they live, so they're going other places. That leads to the sharks not having any minnows where they expec the minnows to be, which results in large areas of space being empty.

This would actually be one of my first steps to getting "the null guys" back in null, playing in there space.
We're in your space mostly because, for the majority of us, there's simply nothing to do in ours. There's to many people for everyone to be going to NPC null at this point.

The underlined part is really the brunt of my problem.
Because as a dedicated industrialist, I agree with you, and I dislike it. First there's no real benefit to joining a corporation, and then then you can be impacted negatively. When there's no benefit to start with, that negative impact becomes a huge motivator in the way that you play.

Owning a statin can give your industrialists lower taxes, better refines, cheaper lines, more lines, faster production, faster and cheaper research. The things you get in a PoS, IF your corp has one, and most do not.

And as far as the new player, as long as you always have access to the station they'll be fine. Whether or not someone will recruit them an issue of the people doing the recruiting. The "no new players" mentality that some corps have is simply wrong. Goons has the opposite policy; are we not one of the largest corporations in EVE?

Unfortunately, sompe people in EVE just haven't figured out that ones worth isn't really measured in SP. We'll always have those peope with an "elitist mentality".

I think that's more a community problem that should be adressed within the community. There's nothing CCP can do, or any mehcanic that can be implimented to really discourage that sort of behavior.

If corporations have a tangible reason to grow, I think that sort of mentality will actually lesson, as it would be better to have that extra body then to not. High sec is a big space, and those guys very well could find that they NEED to recruit new players if they want to compete with others.

And then you'll have corps form that are very inclusive. A "goon" in high sec could be a good thing. A group of players that is laid back, just trying to have fun, and doesn't care if you're a day old or 10 years old; without the SA type for requirement.

For the record, I was invited to join and sponsored into goons. I didn't come throug the SA forums. Goons doesn't "openly" recruit from in game, but that's not the same as saying they do not recruit from in game.

I really believe that with an emphasis on the player corporation in high sec, and by giving them something of value to control, you'll see a lot more corporations growing in high sec, and many of them will actively recrruit new players. I really do think that much of the recruitment problem stems from an abundance of really small corps that aren't really trying to expand, and those that are, are usually involved in some level of PvP activity and have a need to recruit pilots that are capable of doing more than just tackling.

You do not need a PoS for T2 manufacturing, and I'm willing to bet that if CCP looked at what PoS's are used for, what they will find is that they're primarilly set up for the purpose of research and invention.

Because of the abundance of production lines available you don't need the PoS to produce. However, good luck researching in timely fashion without a PoS.

CCP Soundwave said they were discussing internally the idea of moving T2 production to .7 and lower systems.
That would reduce the how much is being produced in NPC stations in high sec, and make the PoS something that more people use to build from.

Most everyone I talk to that is involved with PoS's are either doing something other than T2 production for their corporation, or they're guys that started one man corporation for the purpose of anchoring a PoS to do something other than T2 production.

The idea behind limitting them, as far as the way CCP wants to do it, is to encourage more people to join player run corps, work from a PoS, or move to low or null sec.

I DO NOT want to limit anyone.
Not everyone wants to play outside high sec, and I don't think anyone should be forced to.
Not everyone want to play in a player run corp, and I don't think anyone should be forcec to.

I'm not saying limit the ability to use public lab slots, I'm saying give player run corps the ability to determine what those public slots cost, and how many there are based on the "focus" they give the station.

If they can take control of a station, and they see that there's a demand for more research in that area, they can set the station up to do more research, and have fewer production lines. If they want the station to do more production because they can set the station up to focus on production and it'll have fewer reearch slots available.

Then let them decide what the public and member line costs are, refine rates, and taxes.

It would be a conflict driver, giving wardecs in high sec real "meaning", a real incentive for industrialists to join a player corp because it'll actually give you an advantage in industry over NPC corps, and having NPC corp members producting large volumes of T2 goods won't be a big deal because a player run corp is responcible for taxing the.

If I feel that corp isn't taxing enough, I can bounty the corp that runs the station (eventually we'll be able to bounty THE STRUCTURE ITSELF), knowing that because they own the station, and someone else can take it from them, they wouldn't be able to disband or drop corp, and if they do not actively defend the station it can be flipped and come under control of someone that will charge more.


High sec is the only area of EVE that does not have this kind of player driven dynamic. Low sec has it, null sec has it, even WH space has it. High sec does not.

By just giving the player corps in high sec control over the stations, many issues that people face in EVE would be alleviated. Wardecs would have meaning, NPC corps would not be the prefered destination of the industrialist, and other industrialist in every area of EVE would be to poke back at people in a way that is meaningful.

We do not impact high sec industry through wardecs, we do it by ganking. That's unacceptable, inefficient, and unsustanable. Not to mention it's incredibly detructive for the game. We gank enough ****, it beomes a problem, and CCP is put in a position wher they HAVE to deal with it.

Having something to control will allow the player corp in high sec to have something that they can build around.
That's why null corps grow, it's why you find LARGE corporations in null sec.

Having things to win or lose encourages more cooperation, organization, and player dynamics. It helps to foster enviroments where people become more "atached" to the corps they play in, and gives a sense of being a part of something that is meaningful.

It works in null, it can work in high.
The only thing high sec must have, is CONCORD. All else should be possible.

The more player driven dynamics, the bigger the sandbox, and the better EVE gets.
I'm not advocating anything that would fundimentally change high sec. Station control would only give the high sec corp real meaning. Everyone would still be able to do everything they're currently doing and play the way they choose.


High sec player corporations deserve to be rewarded for assuming risk and effort, that reward should be control in high sec.
Currently the high sec corp is given nothing for putting up with wardecs. The only difference between a high sec corp and a null one is CONCORD, and null is rewarded with the ability to claim sov to control T2 material production.

Null corps are rewarded, high sec corps are not.

Not really...depends on your market. I ran a pretty good t2 bs line from invention to building pure public lab. Granted it was in my 1 man corp, but it may as well be NPC since pos-less.


What I did:
bought preresearched t1 bs bpo (for cheap base model ship in addition to copy)
spam public for copy (if you travel, you can find good times here)
spam invention in public (sometimes open slots nearby, or it was take the transport out for a spin)
build on invent hits.

Since costly and time consuming to build I could never feed lines in the 10's of these even I wanted to. I made blops, they don't sell like say hac's. So even If I spammed them in the 10's of ships....a lot would never sell fast anyway. So my public research reliance never really a hinderance. Filled the wallet nice with how all the scheduling and sales worked out imo.


Now mods and ammo you'd have a point but...not a hard and fast rule either. Ammo for example. Faster you get to marekt, faster you are going to play isk war games for them imo.

CCP's way is not to buff when they can nerf and get something close to what they want. They introduce something new, innovative, and see what happens. Then they tweak. Small changes for the positive, stronger changes for the negative, respectively to achieve a balance, or close enough to be accepted.

Should the staton/system affiliation/ownership occur, and manufactuing is transitioned to Corps, I would be willing to bet it would be a gradual transition. A gradual lessening of slots in NPC stations for certain types of jobs, A gradual take over of some sytem stations, not a gigantic number of new stations popping up everywhere.

There would be alot of work by player corps involved to take over stewardship of those stations, and continual work for their upkeepand improvement. There would be alot of work involved and Resources needed to build a station, and a decent number of systems have no station in them, and would be ideal for an established corp to expand into, and almost monopolize resources, by virtue of convenience should they build a station.

They should be rewarded by their risk in doing something like that. its a huge amount of isk and resources, and currently that option is only available to people in nullsec. You can't build titans in highsec for damn good reasons, but I've seen corps in null build one not because they had surplus cash, but because it was a worthy goal, something to work towards. Tangible, visual and useful. Usefull not just to that corp, but to its alliance.
Clearly a titan can't be used for that in highsec, but what about a station?