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Armor tank improovement for PvE
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PavlikX
Nocte Vigilo
Fraternity.
#1 - 2013-01-20 08:35:18 UTC
Sorry if such threads was allready created.
As we all know, in general armor tanking worse than shield one for PvE activity. In PvP such statemnet will case huge debates and holywars, so it means that armor is far from bad to the PvP porpouse.

I am 90% time in Eve mission runner, and have no enough PvP experience. As i know, it's rare case, when someone uses those modules in PvP.
I sugest to boost slightly armor tanking in PvE. Three ideas,they can be listed with "or" or "and" Well, i would be glad even if single one will bw in the game.
1) New skill. Decreasing capacitor usage of armor repairers (don't kick me hard please if such exists, i've trained armor tank more then two years ago, so i can forgot it :) )
2) More meta levels (t2, facrtion, dead, officers) to the reactive armor hardener unit.
3) Crazy idea. Allow armor repairers to be armed with capacitor bataries to increase speed of action or amout of restored HP (again, i mean small increase of speed or amount. No revolutions needed).
Cargo bay is not unlimited
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#2 - 2013-01-20 09:10:38 UTC
Armor tanked ships in PVE do just fine if you fit them right and from the ideas you propose you seem to fit them wrong in the way that you want cap stable omnitanked silliness.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2013-01-20 09:56:38 UTC
PavlikX wrote:
I am 90% time in Eve mission runner, and have no enough PvP experience. As i know, it's rare case, when someone uses those modules in PvP.

Stopped reading here. You have no idea what you're talking about.

How did you Veterans start?
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-01-20 10:10:25 UTC
PavlikX wrote:
1) New skill. Decreasing capacitor usage of armor repairers (don't kick me hard please if such exists, i've trained armor tank more then two years ago, so i can forgot it :) )

Armour tanking already is the most efficient method of repping. You use less cap per unit of armour repped than to repair the same amount of shields.

PavlikX wrote:
2) More meta levels (t2, facrtion, dead, officers) to the reactive armor hardener unit.

I would be very careful with this. At the most I would think a T2 version with 70% resist rather than the 60% of the T1, but overall I think that would be quite OP. A T2 one would probably be better off with a shorter cycle time than a resist increase. Meta levels could provide the bonus with lower fittings and cap, possibly.

PavlikX wrote:
3) Crazy idea. Allow armor repairers to be armed with capacitor bataries to increase speed of action or amout of restored HP (again, i mean small increase of speed or amount. No revolutions needed).
Cargo bay is not unlimited

Not sure what your asking for here. Do you want an "Ancillary Armour Reparier" or do you want cap boosters to increase the effect of normal reppers?
I'm all for the Ancillary Armour Repairer, but cap booster charges increasing repairer effectiveness is right out.

Realistically, if you want to get better armour tanking on your ship, make sure your fitting it right. Fit hardeners to specific rats and steer clear of omni tanking unless your going into incursions or wormholes.

Friends
PavlikX
Nocte Vigilo
Fraternity.
#5 - 2013-01-20 12:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: PavlikX
Hakan MacTrew
Yes, i am suggests not a huge boost, better say slight tunning. Agree with your position about RAH
Quote:
Not sure what your asking for here. Do you want an "Ancillary Armour Reparier" or do you want cap boosters to increase the effect of normal reppers?
I'm all for the Ancillary Armour Repairer, but cap booster charges increasing repairer effectiveness is right out.

Any way, new module Ancillary Armour Repairer or posibility to increase effectiveness of ordinary repair module using charges would be great

PS I've tried a lot of fits of Amarr (mainly) ships, a lot of skills needed to handle with this. Meantime few friends, who uses shields, making this much more easier.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2013-01-20 12:09:31 UTC
Any boost to PvE tanking, will be a boost to PvP tanking. That's not to say your idea is bad, but shows the need for caution in regards to balance.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
PavlikX
Nocte Vigilo
Fraternity.
#7 - 2013-01-20 12:11:28 UTC
Sure.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#8 - 2013-01-20 12:34:44 UTC
PavlikX wrote:
PS I've tried a lot of fits of Amarr (mainly) ships, a lot of skills needed to handle with this. Meantime few friends, who uses shields, making this much more easier.


That's not an armor issue, that's an Amarr issue. Amarr takes a lot of sp to fit and run, it repays that with tons of dps at good range.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#9 - 2013-01-21 15:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
PavlikX wrote:
Sorry if such threads was allready created.
As we all know, in general armor tanking worse than shield one for PvE activity. In PvP such statemnet will case huge debates and holywars, so it means that armor is far from bad to the PvP porpouse.

I am 90% time in Eve mission runner, and have no enough PvP experience. As i know, it's rare case, when someone uses those modules in PvP.
I sugest to boost slightly armor tanking in PvE. Three ideas,they can be listed with "or" or "and" Well, i would be glad even if single one will bw in the game.
1) New skill. Decreasing capacitor usage of armor repairers (don't kick me hard please if such exists, i've trained armor tank more then two years ago, so i can forgot it :) )
2) More meta levels (t2, facrtion, dead, officers) to the reactive armor hardener unit.
3) Crazy idea. Allow armor repairers to be armed with capacitor bataries to increase speed of action or amout of restored HP (again, i mean small increase of speed or amount. No revolutions needed).
Cargo bay is not unlimited

dual LAR domi / mega / hyp T2 can run ANY lvl4 solo provided you fit hardener accordingly, i don't fly amarr BS but would suppose they are able to achieve the same.

you just need to learn to manage your ship.

using faction / dead, you can achieve a fitting able to omni tank (I.e no need to change hardeners anymore).


about pvp, armor tank is way more efficient than shield, just look at triple rep myrm.

both have their advantages and drawback ,it's only a matter of taste or goal to achieve, good pilot / fleet is able to use both accoding to the situation

Mag's wrote:
Any boost to PvE tanking, will be a boost to PvP tanking. That's not to say your idea is bad, but shows the need for caution in regards to balance.

exactly, i dream of a triple "medium ancilliary armor rep" myrm Shocked

would be one hell of a tank Twisted
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-01-21 15:27:43 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
PavlikX wrote:
Sorry if such threads was allready created.
As we all know, in general armor tanking worse than shield one for PvE activity. In PvP such statemnet will case huge debates and holywars, so it means that armor is far from bad to the PvP porpouse.

I am 90% time in Eve mission runner, and have no enough PvP experience. As i know, it's rare case, when someone uses those modules in PvP.
I sugest to boost slightly armor tanking in PvE. Three ideas,they can be listed with "or" or "and" Well, i would be glad even if single one will bw in the game.
1) New skill. Decreasing capacitor usage of armor repairers (don't kick me hard please if such exists, i've trained armor tank more then two years ago, so i can forgot it :) )
2) More meta levels (t2, facrtion, dead, officers) to the reactive armor hardener unit.
3) Crazy idea. Allow armor repairers to be armed with capacitor bataries to increase speed of action or amout of restored HP (again, i mean small increase of speed or amount. No revolutions needed).
Cargo bay is not unlimited


1) No. Active armor tanking already have better cap/rep ratio than shield. The problem isn't it's not cap efficient enough, but rather it doesn't rep enough for number of slots used.

2) No. What we need is active armor hardner counterpart to the invulnerability field. The major problem of active armor is that it needs more slots to achieve the same rep amount/resistance as shield, once you add boost amp to shield in slots saved, shield is now both more efficient and reps more, disrupting balance.

3) Maybe, if you meant armor counterpart of ancillary booster. It would also affect pvp, by putting Myrm active tanking on par with Cyclone active tanking, but that would be fine, as it restores balance.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#11 - 2013-01-21 15:30:44 UTC
PavlikX wrote:
Hakan MacTrew
Yes, i am suggests not a huge boost, better say slight tunning. Agree with your position about RAH
Quote:
Not sure what your asking for here. Do you want an "Ancillary Armour Reparier" or do you want cap boosters to increase the effect of normal reppers?
I'm all for the Ancillary Armour Repairer, but cap booster charges increasing repairer effectiveness is right out.

Any way, new module Ancillary Armour Repairer or posibility to increase effectiveness of ordinary repair module using charges would be great

PS I've tried a lot of fits of Amarr (mainly) ships, a lot of skills needed to handle with this. Meantime few friends, who uses shields, making this much more easier.

with low skills, yes( and i suppose your friends use drakes).

with more skilled pilots, armor tank will always be better tank (wich doesn't means it does mission faster!)

i do have the same amount of SP with my main in both armor and shield tank, armor is way more efficient, whether it is in pvp or pve.

shield is faster / more dps on the other hand,
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#12 - 2013-01-21 15:32:38 UTC
sabre906 wrote:

2) No. What we need is active armor hardner counterpart to the invulnerability field.

agreed, the reactive armor hardnener should have been the armor pendant of the shield invuln.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-01-21 15:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
seth Hendar wrote:
PavlikX wrote:
Hakan MacTrew
Yes, i am suggests not a huge boost, better say slight tunning. Agree with your position about RAH
Quote:
Not sure what your asking for here. Do you want an "Ancillary Armour Reparier" or do you want cap boosters to increase the effect of normal reppers?
I'm all for the Ancillary Armour Repairer, but cap booster charges increasing repairer effectiveness is right out.

Any way, new module Ancillary Armour Repairer or posibility to increase effectiveness of ordinary repair module using charges would be great

PS I've tried a lot of fits of Amarr (mainly) ships, a lot of skills needed to handle with this. Meantime few friends, who uses shields, making this much more easier.

with low skills, yes( and i suppose your friends use drakes).

with more skilled pilots, armor tank will always be better tank (wich doesn't means it does mission faster!)

i do have the same amount of SP with my main in both armor and shield tank, armor is way more efficient, whether it is in pvp or pve.

shield is faster / more dps on the other hand,


The problem is armor needs more slots to achieve the same rep amount/resistance, once boost amp is put into slots saved, shield tank is now both more cap efficient and reps more using the same number of slots as armor. Thus, the tradeoff you mentioned doesn't exist in practice, shield is flat out better in active tanking.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#14 - 2013-01-22 11:20:01 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
sabre906 wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
PavlikX wrote:
Hakan MacTrew
Yes, i am suggests not a huge boost, better say slight tunning. Agree with your position about RAH
Quote:
Not sure what your asking for here. Do you want an "Ancillary Armour Reparier" or do you want cap boosters to increase the effect of normal reppers?
I'm all for the Ancillary Armour Repairer, but cap booster charges increasing repairer effectiveness is right out.

Any way, new module Ancillary Armour Repairer or posibility to increase effectiveness of ordinary repair module using charges would be great

PS I've tried a lot of fits of Amarr (mainly) ships, a lot of skills needed to handle with this. Meantime few friends, who uses shields, making this much more easier.

with low skills, yes( and i suppose your friends use drakes).

with more skilled pilots, armor tank will always be better tank (wich doesn't means it does mission faster!)

i do have the same amount of SP with my main in both armor and shield tank, armor is way more efficient, whether it is in pvp or pve.

shield is faster / more dps on the other hand,


The problem is armor needs more slots to achieve the same rep amount/resistance, once boost amp is put into slots saved, shield tank is now both more cap efficient and reps more using the same number of slots as armor. Thus, the tradeoff you mentioned doesn't exist in practice, shield is flat out better in active tanking.

not quite true

once your XL ASB will have to reload his cap booster, i'll win, cause my tank still stands, when yours cannot rep anymore than one cycle

and my blasters wil chew your ship in no time

sure, at first time, you will über tank me, but your time is limited.

remember killing a dual ASB maelstrom with a couple canes

indeed, as long as it had cap booster feeding his asb, no way to go throught.

the second he started reloading them, he was in structure