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Guess what? Solo players ARE the majority in EVE.

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Dave Stark
#101 - 2013-01-21 10:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
by incentive i mean a reason to want to go out of your way and spend time with other players. take miners for example (mainly because i am one) what benefit do i get by mining with other people?

erm, none.

most of the common argument is "but then your orca pilot can mine too, you get an extra miner!" which, is entirely false. because all my orca pilot does is end up hauling, which it was doing anyway while providing boosts. i've gained nothing.

where as, on the flip side, you end up sharing a belt/system with some one else who's basically taking food from your table. as it stands mining kinda promotes being as antisocial as possible. hiding in some quiet unloved corner of space sitting on a pile of rocks like some kind of space dragon and telling people to "get off my land" like some kind of redneck famer. all in all, the activity itself promotes being antisocial and isolated.


Well, you can be pretty much social if they're not minng the same minerals as you do...Lol


that just means you're half clearing belts and spend more time warping between said belts, or to new systems. the only players who benefit from mining in a group are players with one or maybe two accounts who don't have an orca.

this is why, as much as i am going to hate it, when ccp remove 100% refining from npc stations it will make miners a *little* bit more social. sure, there's still no reason to do the whole mining thing with any one, and they'll still be antisocial as hell while earning isk. however it will force them to join player corps if 100% refining is moved to a pos, or out to 0.0 to get 100% refining and more lucrative ores. it still however, doesn't address the core issue that mining as a group is a stupid thing to do because it has no gains for any one.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#102 - 2013-01-21 11:04:20 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
yes exactly, more tools like pvp flag on in highsec and wis for the op's emoting character where he can dress up with a bunch of dudes and emote each other.


Considering emoting and dancing brings in a lot of crowd it might actually be a business to implement those toy features.
But it needs to be made well, and CCP are just terrible at making quick, catchy and effective things like those.
I still recall the terrible gear available for Aurum for otrageous prices... and some ****** off CCP boasting his $1500 pants.

That's the quickest way to get a revolt (which happened), not to implement an easy cash cow like other MMOs have done.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2013-01-21 11:32:36 UTC
In my mind solo play has no substantial place in a MMO and it baffles me when people try to convince me otherwise.

I've always expect MMOs to get people playing together, building communities, having fun and even expanding beyond the boundaries of the games.

This is why I never got into WoW (yeah another wow reference)

I joined because a bunch of friends were playing it but they were all level 60.

So I started working my way up, every so often one would stop by and drag me up some levels (which wasn't fun for me).
When I went looking for others at my level no one else wanted to group to do anything because "they were too busy leveling themselves".

So I soloed through the boredom to level 60 and then lost any interest at all when I realized that all it was was more of the same.

EVE doesn't need more solo activities, it needs more tools and repair work done on the tools we currently have. Some incentive to play together would be an added bonus but this catering to a solo player in a multiplayer game just doesn't make sense to me.

If only there were single player games out there for people that wanted to solo.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#104 - 2013-01-21 11:52:33 UTC
I will bring in my little case, because I think there are many, many, many like me.

I did the whole hi sec => mining => FW => NPC 0.0 => sov 0.0 => back to hi sec cycle like many others.

I liked every step including the 0.0 bits but now I have got tasks and responsibilities in RL that don't allow me to be a viable member of a decent corp.
I could join a null sec "casual" alliance but why? I'd still be stranded and depending on other guys for most logistics, for going out and have a PvP week end and so on. I'd have to live at a POS again (most sh!t experience in any game I have played) since I have a lot of my own stuff going.

Depending on the corp, I'd have to "you are online? You must be on voice comm and IRC". Too much going on at home to do that. And how boring I have done this for years... 95% of the time it's just randomg chit chat, a guy belching every now and then, another linking some stupid pics, another putting some ass stupid commercial bass pumping music up...).
Plus I may have to pull the EvE plug any time of the day to do something more important in RL. Also, I may have to not play for some weeks, imagine how good it does to have your undefended stuff sitting weeks out in low sec or null.

ATM I am playing "solo" but I am not solo at all. I am in a public chat called SCC-Lounge. To me the SCC-Lounge chat is my "corp", lots of nice traders in there and they (often) talk exactly of what I like to listen to. Not some random chattering about football, some cheap movie and corpies drama.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ghazu
#105 - 2013-01-21 11:54:25 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Name Family Name wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.



I remember you - you were that moron advocating CQ/WIS.

Yes - I play mostly solo. That doesn't mean I like spacebarbies online, highsec l4s or highsec insursions.


I am still advocating WiS because, no matter how dead is that horse, it still is the difference between EVE reaching the 20th year or collapsing along the way.

With FiS growing in complexity, stagnation and catastrophic failure are the natural consequences of everything that adds to its complexity. Sooner than later, there will come a "iteration" that's too much to chew or fails horribly.

So without WiS, there is no way EVE can acquire enough complexity to keep attracting players without wasting itself in the process.

That doesn't canges that more FiS content for soloers and casuals is needed, and it can be acquired sooner and quicker than WiS.

(BTW, the last we knew about WiS, was the "prototype" of it as another big F-You to soloers, à la Incursions)


but how do you and a bunch of dudes get together and emote each other if you only want solo content?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#106 - 2013-01-21 11:55:18 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
In my mind solo play has no substantial place in a MMO and it baffles me when people try to convince me otherwise.

I've always expect MMOs to get people playing together, building communities, having fun and even expanding beyond the boundaries of the games.

This is why I never got into WoW (yeah another wow reference)

I joined because a bunch of friends were playing it but they were all level 60.

So I started working my way up, every so often one would stop by and drag me up some levels (which wasn't fun for me).
When I went looking for others at my level no one else wanted to group to do anything because "they were too busy leveling themselves".

So I soloed through the boredom to level 60 and then lost any interest at all when I realized that all it was was more of the same.

EVE doesn't need more solo activities, it needs more tools and repair work done on the tools we currently have. Some incentive to play together would be an added bonus but this catering to a solo player in a multiplayer game just doesn't make sense to me.

If only there were single player games out there for people that wanted to solo.


You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Frying Doom
#107 - 2013-01-21 11:58:24 UTC
This place is full of WoW witches

Burn the witchesLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Dave Stark
#108 - 2013-01-21 11:59:59 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever.


actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it.
leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#109 - 2013-01-21 12:07:06 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever.


actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it.
leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters.


Heh no idea, last time I played that game was when it was still decent, that is 5 years ago.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Dave Stark
#110 - 2013-01-21 12:08:15 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever.


actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it.
leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters.


Heh no idea, last time I played that game was when it was still decent, that is 5 years ago.


with recruit a friend bonuses, people have managed to do 1-max level in like 24hrs. /played
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2013-01-21 12:11:47 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever.


actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it.
leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters.


Heh no idea, last time I played that game was when it was still decent, that is 5 years ago.


with recruit a friend bonuses, people have managed to do 1-max level in like 24hrs. /played


sounds like a pro-wow player.
Dave Stark
#112 - 2013-01-21 12:12:17 UTC
Pandora Barzane wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You joined a bunch of bads. If you don't want to be bad you have to join a decent guild (but then they WILL have requirements) and then you'll find help, be given gear and whatever.


actually, it's wow, by the time they've sourced gear for you you'll be about 10 levels too high to use it.
leveling up in wow is so easy that it's borderline pointless and i'm surprised they don't just give you premade level 90 characters.


Heh no idea, last time I played that game was when it was still decent, that is 5 years ago.


with recruit a friend bonuses, people have managed to do 1-max level in like 24hrs. /played


sounds like a pro-wow player.




i think they did it more as an example of how stupid the recruit a friend bonuses were.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#113 - 2013-01-21 14:08:28 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
yes exactly, more tools like pvp flag on in highsec and wis for the op's emoting character where he can dress up with a bunch of dudes and emote each other.


Considering emoting and dancing brings in a lot of crowd it might actually be a business to implement those toy features.
But it needs to be made well, and CCP are just terrible at making quick, catchy and effective things like those.
I still recall the terrible gear available for Aurum for otrageous prices... and some ****** off CCP boasting his $1500 pants.

That's the quickest way to get a revolt (which happened), not to implement an easy cash cow like other MMOs have done.


CCP's performance in the whole NEx store issue has been astonishing. Their last move was to half-ass deliver some of the undelivered NEx items through FW LP stores. Because, obviously, PvP nuts are very interested in wearing fancy clothing.What?

I am quite sure that the idea worked horribly and now in CCP's books the whole "NEx store" is a dead end. The undelivered items will never be delivered and that's all. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Silindra Hanaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2013-01-21 14:30:59 UTC
The people who play solo are the same ones complaining about mission difficulty and such. It is simple, grab a friend and have him join a mission run with you. You'll find things go alot smoother.

And really? This type of game, everyone should want to play in a Fleet. I mean come on. A giant fleet of BS's, destroyers, BC's and whatnot going into battle? It is your Star Wars / Star Trek fantasy come to life! But people treat this game more like work then any other MMO I've ever played.

Work is never enjoyable ... except for a very few exceptions.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#115 - 2013-01-21 14:31:37 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
but how do you and a bunch of dudes get together and emote each other if you only want solo content?


There's a big difference between solo / casual players and players that only want solo content (as you obviously know just from reading this thread so far).
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#116 - 2013-01-21 15:03:08 UTC
Its the individuals that make the corps and alliances what they are. In a way everyone is a solo player but
having more tools for the individual to create and enhance an organisation is no bad thing. This coming from
a mainly solo high sec/low sec player.
Jayson Kassis
Carbon Industries
#117 - 2013-01-21 15:17:20 UTC
Solo player's don't want to play solo. This game pushes you in that direction. It is the players responsibility to interact with people and that is where the problem lies. There should be more activities that encourage players to play together. Missions, mining and most other activities that aren't pvp related can be achieved solo and there is no point in asking others to do these boring tasks with you. I don't have any interest in chatting up a storm about useless ****. I would rather just get to work.

This is a big part of why people get winded early on playing EvE.

Also, nothing encourages me to get to know people because this game promotes theft, griefing and bad attitudes.

I don't feel safe playing EvE. I don't trust anyone. This is not because I am paranoid or have a hard time trusting people. It's because EvE promotes this and encourages it. It is not logical to play with others who are socially rewarded for abusing, stealing and griefing.

This is an MMO for players who have the pirate mentality.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#118 - 2013-01-21 15:20:04 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.


This.

Don't complain no one listens to you if you can't be bothered to speak up.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#119 - 2013-01-21 15:27:18 UTC
Jayson Kassis wrote:
Solo player's don't want to play solo. This game pushes you in that direction. It is the players responsibility to interact with people and that is where the problem lies. There should be more activities that encourage players to play together. Missions, mining and most other activities that aren't pvp related can be achieved solo and there is no point in asking others to do these boring tasks with you. I don't have any interest in chatting up a storm about useless ****. I would rather just get to work.

This is a big part of why people get winded early on playing EvE.

Also, nothing encourages me to get to know people because this game promotes theft, griefing and bad attitudes.

I don't feel safe playing EvE. I don't trust anyone. This is not because I am paranoid or have a hard time trusting people. It's because EvE promotes this and encourages it. It is not logical to play with others who are socially rewarded for abusing, stealing and griefing.

This is an MMO for players who have the pirate mentality.


I would disagree with your premises there. EVE absolutely and extremely encourages you not to play solo. The rewards for grouping in EVE are absolutely incredible. Even a small group of relatively low power players can easily accomplish things that the richest 160M SP veteran couldn't even attempt solo. EVE is filled with mechanics that practically beat you over the head and say YOU NEED SOME FRIENDS! WHERE ARE YOUR FRIENDS? There is pretty much a straight line correlation to power, wealth and influence with working effectively with other players.

" It is the players responsibility to interact with people and that is where the problem lies"

You call it a problem; I call it the central theme of the game. That responsibility is the game. The risks and rewards of that interaction are what it's about. You might as well say that running away from ghosts and eating dots is where the problem lies with PacMan.

Take away that interaction and what have you got? The worst PvE of any MMO in existence, and a mildly diverting market sim.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jayson Kassis
Carbon Industries
#120 - 2013-01-21 15:35:15 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jayson Kassis wrote:
Solo player's don't want to play solo. This game pushes you in that direction. It is the players responsibility to interact with people and that is where the problem lies. There should be more activities that encourage players to play together. Missions, mining and most other activities that aren't pvp related can be achieved solo and there is no point in asking others to do these boring tasks with you. I don't have any interest in chatting up a storm about useless ****. I would rather just get to work.

This is a big part of why people get winded early on playing EvE.

Also, nothing encourages me to get to know people because this game promotes theft, griefing and bad attitudes.

I don't feel safe playing EvE. I don't trust anyone. This is not because I am paranoid or have a hard time trusting people. It's because EvE promotes this and encourages it. It is not logical to play with others who are socially rewarded for abusing, stealing and griefing.

This is an MMO for players who have the pirate mentality.


I would disagree with your premises there. EVE absolutely and extremely encourages you not to play solo. The rewards for grouping in EVE are absolutely incredible. Even a small group of relatively low power players can easily accomplish things that the richest 160M SP veteran couldn't even attempt solo. EVE is filled with mechanics that practically beat you over the head and say YOU NEED SOME FRIENDS! WHERE ARE YOUR FRIENDS? There is pretty much a straight line correlation to power, wealth and influence with working effectively with other players.

" It is the players responsibility to interact with people and that is where the problem lies"

You call it a problem; I call it the central theme of the game. That responsibility is the game. The risks and rewards of that interaction are what it's about. You might as well say that running away from ghosts and eating dots is where the problem lies with PacMan.

Take away that interaction and what have you got? The worst PvE of any MMO in existence, and a mildly diverting market sim.


And yet, you see promotions like the power of two. I can easily get a few accounts and accomplish most activities in this game solo.

Just so you know, I am playing this mildly diverting market sim you speak of. I would love to join a corporation and work to improve it but whats the point when I can accomplish this alone without the worry of being stabbed in the back.