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Guess what? Solo players ARE the majority in EVE.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#81 - 2013-01-20 21:37:40 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
That's not what Unifex was saying though.

Unifex never said that the majority of players are solo players.
He's being quoted and then an arguement is being made that has nothing to do with what Unifex said.

From what I understand, CCP surveys said that 16% of the playerbase plays solo.

If anything, he's pointing out that of that 16%, lurkers make up the majority.
He never said that lurkers are the majority of all players.

We need content for the lurkers?

How about some CONCORD?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#82 - 2013-01-20 22:48:19 UTC
Now that we've identified the problem, we can start to work on solutions.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#83 - 2013-01-21 01:00:11 UTC
Eve Online Translation sheet:



Griefing = "social interaction"
Grouping = "uber leet form of gameplay that all the world should fall at your feet over for if you can work in a group in an MMO, yuo have done what was intended in the first place that that alone is an accomplishment greater than walking on the moon"
Ganking = "Emergent play"
Solo play = "amusement park gaming"


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#84 - 2013-01-21 01:07:02 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Eve Online Translation sheet:

Griefing = "social interaction" griefing, which gets you banned.
Grouping = "uber leet form of yadda yadda" understanding that you're not lagging behind since the most powerful weapon in EVE is +1 fleet.
Ganking = "Emergent play" ganking, something you consent to by pressing the undock button.
Solo play = "amusement park gaming" solo play, comes in many form including a faux-themepark mode
It needs some work
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2013-01-21 01:09:54 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.



I remember you - you were that moron advocating CQ/WIS.

Yes - I play mostly solo. That doesn't mean I like spacebarbies online, highsec l4s or highsec insursions.
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#86 - 2013-01-21 01:26:46 UTC
mynnna wrote:
A well designed expansion does not have to cater to the group player anymore than it has to cater to a solo player, and part of the point of their new development process is to get back to that. Apocrypha and wormholes are a good example of this - you have C1/C2s on the low end and C5/C6 on the high end. Contrast that with Incursion, where if you're a solo player, you're told HTFU and group or get out.



Agreed, I recall, CCP stating that they intended for incursion running to be a PUG type of PvE in order to encourage people to get away from solo and corp only activities and work with others, even when those others might be someone they'd never met before. of course some of those PUGs formed into little clicks and tight knit groups that are hard to get into now, but at first it was working as intended.

:)

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#87 - 2013-01-21 01:43:37 UTC
Name Family Name wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.

I remember you - you were that moron advocating CQ/WIS.

Yes - I play mostly solo. That doesn't mean I like spacebarbies online, highsec l4s or highsec insursions.

I should think you'd love you some highsec l5s, like in the good old days.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#88 - 2013-01-21 02:01:23 UTC
Not trying to light any fires, but, the current state of Eve encourages solo players. And I don't mean bots.
Ghazu
#89 - 2013-01-21 02:13:50 UTC
Zyrbalax III wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
We already had this discussion with the hisec vs nullsec population numbers.

The same as then, what matters is what people DOES: they stay in hisec, and they do it to play solo.
…and as usual, there's little to indicate this. All we have to indicate what the players do is that a lot of them engage in solo play on occasion — only some 16% do it exclusively.

Quote:
But they do measure what characters do, and it turns that, by their own words, "lurking single players who are already subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility".
…which, as Natsett points out tells us very little about what the actual players do. It also raises the question of methodology. Do they count all those NPC-corp highsec mission alts as “a lurking single player” because it's the group-play nullsec main that makes all the noise? As always, all they can talk about is characters. Characters are not the same thing as players, and character behaviour only provides a very fractured and piecemeal sample of actual player behaviour.

Confessor Golab wrote:
Yep, Ischtanchuk, I totally agree with you.

When I started to play, I also thought that nullsec play was the endgame of EVE, then joined a nullsec alliance and after an incredibly boring and annoying month or six understood how wrong I was.
The problem is that you though EVE had an endgame and that you joined a very boring nullsec alliance. It's not particularly hard to find one without CTAs or without any politics you have to care about.


Even if it's true that the majority of PLAYERS are not purely solo players, but that the majority of CHARACTERS are used in a solo fashion, why would you argue against more stuff / more tools that soloists can benefit from (whether players or characters)? Your mission alt might benefit from a richer mix of missions to run; your trade alt might benefit from better trade tools to use; your mining alt might benefit from a more interesting mining game; your industrial alt might better from a slicker manufacturing interface. All of those things would be good for solo players as well as solo characters, and that's just touching the tip of the iceberg.

Ish isn't arguing that us solo players want some attention that's tuned JUST to us; she's just saying that when considering the themes, CCP should make sure there is stuff covered by that theme that we can do too - even if we're doing it at a disadvantage to groups doing the same thing. (Correct me if I'm wrong here Ish!)

Z3


yes exactly, more tools like pvp flag on in highsec and wis for the op's emoting character where he can dress up with a bunch of dudes and emote each other.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#90 - 2013-01-21 02:36:32 UTC
Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:
No More Heroes wrote:
Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:
People always try to claim how sandboxy EVE is, but the sandbox only barely begins if you are in a player corp and/or leave high sec.


So join a player corp and leave highsec Smile



Well, I would, but I haven't had an SA account for 3 months yet... plus I only lurk there.


fleet up with some of the coalition partners, talk to other goons, maybe send a few contracts their way on the cheap. make yourself noticeable to them and they will notice you and maybe somebody might care enough to sponsor you.
Daniel Whateley
#91 - 2013-01-21 02:40:20 UTC
There isn't a way to make solo pvpers more welcome in eve, everything you do can be turned against them, the only way you can overcome being able to solo, is lots of practice like 100-200 losses not feeding but knowledgeable losses, if you didn't learn something it wasn't worth it, youll then learn how to fit your ship correctly, don't look on battleclinic or any other site for ship fits 90% of the time people have no idea what they fitted themselves, learn it from an actual soloer who has had success with it, and ask questions, knowing your ship types is most important, you know what damage types to deal to rats impliment that into player ships, research their weaknesses, fly them fit and them different ways, find out which one for instance caps out, or is hard to get a thermal resist on.... it just takes time, but most of our skill queues are set up for 2 years anyway....
Spurty
#92 - 2013-01-21 03:43:34 UTC
The invention of the falcon is a pretty sure sign that solo pvp is done by the extremely lucky or foolish.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Scaramanga Erquilenne
#93 - 2013-01-21 03:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Scaramanga Erquilenne
Good post OP , If there statistics are correct and the majority of players are single players who lurk in space .Then it would make no business sense for ccp not to engage them are give them some kind of meaningful voice in shaping the future of EVE. Even if they just make 15% they should still have a voice. Never thought of my self as a lurker i am normally busy doing stuff in space when i play this game.

I don't understand the hostility some people harbour on this forum for those who's play style and interaction with EVE differs to theirs, they seem to view it as a threat .There is plenty room in EVE for people who like to fly solo and those who want to interact more with other players and yes at its heart eve is a social game and is best played that way.But every one who plays EVE interacts with it in many ways , its just some people don't want to fly in groups are belong to corps.

I am only 4 months in to EVE and i am a casual player and solo and enjoy it and due to reasons beyond my control i cant use a mic most nights.I have no interest in blob warfare are corp politics are having to fit in with other peoples time frames , not saying its bad its just not for me.There are things like RVB are FW which i will look to to for some PVP action with other players outside of random encounters and attacks and exploration. And no i don't want a safe high sec)

Having browsed the forums for a few months there seems to be a great deal of mistrust amongst players and corps,And numerous threads were people revel in the fact some one has deceived another player.Again not saying this is bad and not saying change it, as its the Nature of EVE and its what most people love about it.But maybe a fallout of that is a ever growing number of players who decide they wont trust anyone in this game and developing a solo mindset towards Eve, maybe EVEs reputation is catching up with it .

But back to the point, yes as a solo casual player it would nice if future expansions and meetings included content and contributions from us solo lurkers as well as others.

We need a Lurker Leader to let are voice be heard from the dark little corners of space we lurk in Lol

I vote for the OP)
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist 
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#94 - 2013-01-21 04:04:42 UTC
Spurty wrote:
The invention of the falcon is a pretty sure sign that solo pvp is done by the extremely lucky or foolish.


I remember when the falcon first came out. It was hilarious trying to see people justify an ECM boat that could sit up to 200km away (though most sat about 125-150km) from a gate. None of the other ewar boats could do that.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#95 - 2013-01-21 07:52:58 UTC
Name Family Name wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.



I remember you - you were that moron advocating CQ/WIS.

Yes - I play mostly solo. That doesn't mean I like spacebarbies online, highsec l4s or highsec insursions.


I am still advocating WiS because, no matter how dead is that horse, it still is the difference between EVE reaching the 20th year or collapsing along the way.

With FiS growing in complexity, stagnation and catastrophic failure are the natural consequences of everything that adds to its complexity. Sooner than later, there will come a "iteration" that's too much to chew or fails horribly.

So without WiS, there is no way EVE can acquire enough complexity to keep attracting players without wasting itself in the process.

That doesn't canges that more FiS content for soloers and casuals is needed, and it can be acquired sooner and quicker than WiS.

(BTW, the last we knew about WiS, was the "prototype" of it as another big F-You to soloers, à la Incursions)

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Washichu May
Psilocybin Research
#96 - 2013-01-21 09:00:15 UTC
That's not so surprising, really. Power projection in 0.0 works too well, there is no breathing space in 0.0 for small entities, which basically means that you have to chose which of the feudal lords you want to serve. Whatever happened of small corporations geeking it out on their own.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#97 - 2013-01-21 09:08:04 UTC
Washichu May wrote:
That's not so surprising, really. Power projection in 0.0 works too well, there is no breathing space in 0.0 for small entities, which basically means that you have to chose which of the feudal lords you want to serve. Whatever happened of small corporations geeking it out on their own.

They decided to kill people and became the HONEYBADGERCOALITION and then started shooting elitepvpers

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#98 - 2013-01-21 09:09:17 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I am still advocating WiS because, no matter how dead is that horse, it still is the difference between EVE reaching the 20th year or collapsing along the way.

Yeah, waste enough resources and it'll collapse along the way.

EVE is already dying, trying to bleed it out further, well...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#99 - 2013-01-21 09:17:32 UTC
Washichu May wrote:
That's not so surprising, really. Power projection in 0.0 works too well, there is no breathing space in 0.0 for small entities, which basically means that you have to chose which of the feudal lords you want to serve. Whatever happened of small corporations geeking it out on their own.


Well, let us see CCPs track record for helping out small alliances in EvE.

They removed Drone alloys
They added moons and then changed the primary moon goo needed to a uncommon/rare moon that is almost exclusively found in the north
They added Dominion in general which made the entire sov based on mega structures that have to be destroyed by large amounts of supercapitals to get the job done within any appreciable time frame
They brought in black ops cyno ships that totally will never be used by larger coalitions, no siree.
They added large anomalies that have phenomenal amounts of ore in them. With enough trit in them to almost make nothing needed to the get up and go alliance.
POS structures require a very beautiful mind still to set up and maintain.
Man the list goes on and on. CCP really tries to make it easy for new alliances to form up in nullsec on their own.

Not surprising that the majority of the coalitions tell you just to join up with one of them (there are like 5 or so to choose from) since they just don't want you to have all the easy stuff in the list I just showed.
DbjaBol
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-01-21 10:00:27 UTC
why is what? where have you got this information? terrible solo gameplay is so bad. its like working in office like a tard and thinking this is so much fun.