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Guess what? Solo players ARE the majority in EVE.

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Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#241 - 2013-01-23 22:29:50 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
EVEs' PCU record for Tranquility it's 63k users online, and that was right before Incarna. Retribution's record is on 57k, which was the record in 2010.

Albeit CCP may be enjoying more subscriptions than ever after relaunching the Chinese server (Serenity), the fact is that Tranquility has been slowboating on the verge of stalling after recovering from the Incarna drops. And that has come at a high price in marketing efforts to draw in returning customers and improve the initial retention of new players. More effort to stay in place is always the precursor of negative growth AKA going to hell.


hmm i see, i guess i must have been confusing the number of accounts with the number online records etc.

however, if the subscriptions are there, the funding is there, that means the bills get paid and the servers don't get turned off. *shrug*


The point that I'm trying to make is that, if they can't even return to previous levels of users on line, where are they going?

If they want to make this a total niche game, that's their prerogative, but is that good for either them or the player community?

I really don't want to quit this game, even though it has become a major disappointment, and I am preparing to shut down the 4th of my 5 accounts.


considering this happened in 2011 and we've only just got in to 2013, so it hasn't even been two full years, i think it's a bit early to assume they'll never get back to player levels they had back then.

i don't think turning it in to a niche game is an issue, provided there is enough demand for said niche.

just out of curiosity; what is it that's disheartened you so much about the game that you've been canceling some of your accounts?


Non-consensual PvP in Hi Sec, to be honest. I've spent too much time and too much ISK on training those other characters. I don't feel like dangling them out there to entertain 1%ers.

I think you would be surprised to find out how small the niche is.

Not assuming anything. They could do it a lot faster and a lot easier, though.

I suspect that the summer expansion is going to be a mini-Incarna. They seem to be incapable of learning.

I'm not incapable of learning, I'm just incapable of accepting things I know are cow poo.
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#242 - 2013-01-23 22:32:24 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Corporate personnel layoffs caused by trying to cater to the solo, casual player through microtransactions and single-player activities. CCP learned its lesson from that, a lesson it soon won't forget.


I think you need to read a little more about the Incarna Disaster. It had nothing to do with the majority of the players. The Solo players.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#243 - 2013-01-23 22:34:02 UTC
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


i wasn't aware that a company that was able to fund a project like dust were also laying people off.


You must not have been around for the Incarna Disaster. :)


Good example. EvE almost died when CCP released themepark/carebear expansions.

The fact of the matter is, EvE is 10 years old and is still growing. The game is a ruthless old school sandbox mmo-rpg, it's a niche game. That why we love it.


You're are missing the point. Eve nearly died after Incarna. Is that what you want to see happen again? Eve isn't growing. It's stagnant. Spend a few minutes on line each day and you will see that.




No, the EvE player base is growing.

Also i want to play EvE Online, the sandbox mmo-rpg, not EvE Online, the themepark space game.

EvE is a niche game, that why we love EvE, that's why we play EvE, that's why EvE is still growing after all this years.

The Tears Must Flow
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#244 - 2013-01-23 22:38:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Not Politically Correct wrote:


So you are saying that, when there are six people still paying for the game, all goonies, trying frantically to bump each other to death in their pods, your dreams will be fulfilled?

I don't think that is going to happen, for a lot of reasons.

Do you not WANT non-consensual PvP?

Non-consensual PvP is an integral part of EVE and the economy. The entire game is built around it. EVE has a "real" economy BECAUSE it has non-concensual pvp. It's a poor player driven market that doesn't have non-consensual pvp.

You appear to advocate the removal of non-concensual pvp.
Yet, you're playing EVE and it has non-consensual pvp.


You must understand, there are people who play eve who aren't interesting in the pvp, but we don't care that it's there.
Just because we are not the majority of gamers doesn't mean we're some tiny segment.

"Carebears do not like PvP" is a lie. Yes, they absolutely do. I got to watch first hand what happens when you give a bunch of carebears a reason to fight, in another game. They started slaughtering each other left and right; for a ******* title.

Do not tell me carebears do not like pvp, and will not engage in it if it's worthwhile and meaningful.


I watched carebears on a WoW PvE server, run around and kill each other in droves, to collect honor points to spend on gear, and a title.

Anyone who plays EVE and complains about non-consensual pvp is a bigger pussy then a world of warcraft carebear on a PvE server.

It's just sad.

PS: And I'm talking about before WoW ever introduced battlegrounds and dishonor points.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#245 - 2013-01-23 22:45:30 UTC
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Corporate personnel layoffs caused by trying to cater to the solo, casual player through microtransactions and single-player activities. CCP learned its lesson from that, a lesson it soon won't forget.


I think you need to read a little more about the Incarna Disaster. It had nothing to do with the majority of the players. The Solo players.

People like the OP, a solo player advocate, are also the greatest defenders of the Incarna expansion and the biggest champions of its continued iteration. That is not a coincidence. Incarna, and its predecessor Tyrannis, were great examples of the folly of catering to the solo player, the casual carebear. And when one of them asserts their claim to the reigns of New Edene, it behooves ye to caste them out.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#246 - 2013-01-23 22:47:29 UTC
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
EVEs' PCU record for Tranquility it's 63k users online, and that was right before Incarna. Retribution's record is on 57k, which was the record in 2010.

Albeit CCP may be enjoying more subscriptions than ever after relaunching the Chinese server (Serenity), the fact is that Tranquility has been slowboating on the verge of stalling after recovering from the Incarna drops. And that has come at a high price in marketing efforts to draw in returning customers and improve the initial retention of new players. More effort to stay in place is always the precursor of negative growth AKA going to hell.


hmm i see, i guess i must have been confusing the number of accounts with the number online records etc.

however, if the subscriptions are there, the funding is there, that means the bills get paid and the servers don't get turned off. *shrug*


The point that I'm trying to make is that, if they can't even return to previous levels of users on line, where are they going?

If they want to make this a total niche game, that's their prerogative, but is that good for either them or the player community?

I really don't want to quit this game, even though it has become a major disappointment, and I am preparing to shut down the 4th of my 5 accounts.


considering this happened in 2011 and we've only just got in to 2013, so it hasn't even been two full years, i think it's a bit early to assume they'll never get back to player levels they had back then.

i don't think turning it in to a niche game is an issue, provided there is enough demand for said niche.

just out of curiosity; what is it that's disheartened you so much about the game that you've been canceling some of your accounts?


Non-consensual PvP in Hi Sec, to be honest. I've spent too much time and too much ISK on training those other characters. I don't feel like dangling them out there to entertain 1%ers.

I think you would be surprised to find out how small the niche is.

Not assuming anything. They could do it a lot faster and a lot easier, though.

I suspect that the summer expansion is going to be a mini-Incarna. They seem to be incapable of learning.

I'm not incapable of learning, I'm just incapable of accepting things I know are cow poo.


After reading this i'm positively sure that EvE Online is not the game for you. Their's no such thing as non-consensual PvP in EvE Online, you make it consensual when you login.

You are against the hart and soul of EvE, the Sandbox. There's really no point in trying to explain this, themeparkers just don't understand.

The Tears Must Flow
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#247 - 2013-01-23 22:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

People like the OP, a solo player advocate, are also the greatest defenders of the Incarna expansion and the biggest champions of its continued iteration. That is not a coincidence. Incarna, and its predecessor Tyrannis, were great examples of the folly of catering to the solo player, the casual carebear. And when one of them asserts their claim to the reigns of New Edene, it behooves ye to caste them out.

I'm one of the greatest defenders of WiS. Incarna was ****.


I'm sure I don't fit your mold, and lots of other play eve who are just like me.
Dave Stark
#248 - 2013-01-23 22:49:27 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
After reading this i'm positively sure that EvE Online is not the game for you. Their's no such thing as non-consensual PvP in EvE Online, you make it consensual when you login.

You are against the hart and soul of EvE, the Sandbox. There's really no point in trying to explain this, themeparkers just don't understand.


i'm glad you posted that, i wasn't sure if he was inarticulate or he just didn't know what the game was about. clearly he's not sure what the game is about.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#249 - 2013-01-23 23:08:31 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
After reading this i'm positively sure that EvE Online is not the game for you. Their's no such thing as non-consensual PvP in EvE Online, you make it consensual when you login.

You are against the hart and soul of EvE, the Sandbox. There's really no point in trying to explain this, themeparkers just don't understand.


i'm glad you posted that, i wasn't sure if he was inarticulate or he just didn't know what the game was about. clearly he's not sure what the game is about.


That's one reason the first paragraph of my Day 0 Advice post specifically mentions that EVE is a PvP game:

Quote:
Before you start playing, you should be aware that EVE is a very deep game technically and socially. According to CCP, "EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world; it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world." So keep in mind that EVE is an entirely PvP virtual world set in a dystopian future, with politics and treachery famously celebrated as part of the gamut of supported gameplay.


The more people we can get this message to on day 1 or earlier, the better EVE will be in the long run.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#250 - 2013-01-23 23:12:48 UTC
Nick Asir wrote:
I dont think that CCP wants solo players. Why would you play solo anyway? Seems every aspect of the game is much easier in even small groups.


Faster to complete, yes, but this means profit splitting, when playing with other players. It's lengthier to group up with others however, from finding groups, to fixing the group when people have to leave, to simply not being able to form one when not enough people are online/available/able to fly the right ships. (This applies strongly to Incursions, and c5/c6 W-space)

There is a point of clarification you are requiring however, Nick Asir.

A solo player is not defined as a single spaceship, or single toon, but a player who plays on their own, sometimes with 5-10 accounts at once. Myself for example, I will run anomalies and plexs with 4 characters at a time, but I am considered a solo player, because I do not need to interact with others when making money, producing ships, etc. Only for pvp, is it really beneficial for me to group up. A big part of the problem is, once you have a few accounts, and decent sp, there is VERY little reason to group up with other players, it is generally better for you not to.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#251 - 2013-01-23 23:14:56 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


i wasn't aware that a company that was able to fund a project like dust were also laying people off.


You must not have been around for the Incarna Disaster. :)


Good example. EvE almost died when CCP released themepark/carebear expansions.

The fact of the matter is, EvE is 10 years old and is still growing. The game is a ruthless old school sandbox mmo-rpg, it's a niche game. That why we love it.


What does having an human avatar have to do with being carebear or not?
Quite sure if you play Darkfall you are slaugthered and lose money plus gear and makes EvE look soft core in comparison.

Incarna failed because it was a .... nothing. It was just a (lackluster) technology preview, limited to one room.

Had it been a space themed slaugtherfest, conquer stations and so on avatar based minigame, would you have called it "carebear"?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#252 - 2013-01-23 23:26:14 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
A solo player is not defined as a single spaceship, or single toon, but a player who plays on their own, sometimes with 5-10 accounts at once. Myself for example, I will run anomalies and plexs with 4 characters at a time, but I am considered a solo player, because I do not need to interact with others when making money, producing ships, etc. Only for pvp, is it really beneficial for me to group up. A big part of the problem is, once you have a few accounts, and decent sp, there is VERY little reason to group up with other players, it is generally better for you not to.


The game really is more fun when you play with other actual people. Unless you're a total sociopath, the chances are that your brain is wired to enjoy interacting with other people in any way shape or form. Sure, part of you is greedy and doesn't want to split that ISK/hr with other people, but there are more ways to "profit" ingame than can be measured in ISK.

I have run mining ops and missioning fleets for NPC corps, not for recruitment purposes but just to find more players who are active during my timezone who are willing to trust other players enough to join in a fleet.

Solo play doesn't necessarily preclude group activities from time to time. We need more capsuleer book clubs.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dave Stark
#253 - 2013-01-23 23:35:47 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
The game really is more fun when you play with other actual people. Unless you're a total sociopath, the chances are that your brain is wired to enjoy interacting with other people in any way shape or form. Sure, part of you is greedy and doesn't want to split that ISK/hr with other people, but there are more ways to "profit" ingame than can be measured in ISK.

I have run mining ops and missioning fleets for NPC corps, not for recruitment purposes but just to find more players who are active during my timezone who are willing to trust other players enough to join in a fleet.

Solo play doesn't necessarily preclude group activities from time to time. We need more capsuleer book clubs.


sure people want to interact, but when you're playing a game like eve you have goals you want to achieve. i'll gladly go without human contact to achieve those goals quicker leaving me time to go to the pub and get that needed social interaction.

hence; we arrive at the problem. some times, you get more out of the game by being an antisocial ****.
look at mining, what do i get for joining other people mining? i get a pain in the ass when i'm crossing strips and spending loads of time warping between belts because we're stripping them so fast. what am i getting in return for this... i already have an orca that does my boosting and hauling and if some one else is providing boosts it's still going to be there hauling so i'm not even gaining an extra miner.
let's look at the wider picture, corps of miners not just isolated mining ops. what can a corp offer me? i already have lossless refining in my system of choice, and i highly doubt they are going to buy my minerals at jita sell prices less tax.

there's no reason for players to want to interact, the reason just isn't there.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#254 - 2013-01-23 23:48:49 UTC
the obvious solution would be to stop shooting miners.

makes sense in my eyes.

if miners lose less, they'll sell more, thus dropping the price.
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#255 - 2013-01-23 23:50:08 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


i wasn't aware that a company that was able to fund a project like dust were also laying people off.


You must not have been around for the Incarna Disaster. :)


Good example. EvE almost died when CCP released themepark/carebear expansions.

The fact of the matter is, EvE is 10 years old and is still growing. The game is a ruthless old school sandbox mmo-rpg, it's a niche game. That why we love it.


You're are missing the point. Eve nearly died after Incarna. Is that what you want to see happen again? Eve isn't growing. It's stagnant. Spend a few minutes on line each day and you will see that.




No, the EvE player base is growing.

Also i want to play EvE Online, the sandbox mmo-rpg, not EvE Online, the themepark space game.

EvE is a niche game, that why we love EvE, that's why we play EvE, that's why EvE is still growing after all this years.


I would suggest that you quit then. If CCP ever gets their heads out of there ****, there won't be a place for you.
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#256 - 2013-01-23 23:52:38 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:


So you are saying that, when there are six people still paying for the game, all goonies, trying frantically to bump each other to death in their pods, your dreams will be fulfilled?

I don't think that is going to happen, for a lot of reasons.

Do you not WANT non-consensual PvP?

Non-consensual PvP is an integral part of EVE and the economy. The entire game is built around it. EVE has a "real" economy BECAUSE it has non-concensual pvp. It's a poor player driven market that doesn't have non-consensual pvp.

You appear to advocate the removal of non-concensual pvp.
Yet, you're playing EVE and it has non-consensual pvp.


You must understand, there are people who play eve who aren't interesting in the pvp, but we don't care that it's there.
Just because we are not the majority of gamers doesn't mean we're some tiny segment.

"Carebears do not like PvP" is a lie. Yes, they absolutely do. I got to watch first hand what happens when you give a bunch of carebears a reason to fight, in another game. They started slaughtering each other left and right; for a ******* title.

Do not tell me carebears do not like pvp, and will not engage in it if it's worthwhile and meaningful.


I watched carebears on a WoW PvE server, run around and kill each other in droves, to collect honor points to spend on gear, and a title.

Anyone who plays EVE and complains about non-consensual pvp is a bigger ***** then a world of warcraft carebear on a PvE server.

It's just sad.

PS: And I'm talking about before WoW ever introduced battlegrounds and dishonor points.


Sorry. You are on the wrong end of the stick. The majority of Eve players probabaly don't want you around at all.
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#257 - 2013-01-23 23:53:50 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Corporate personnel layoffs caused by trying to cater to the solo, casual player through microtransactions and single-player activities. CCP learned its lesson from that, a lesson it soon won't forget.


I think you need to read a little more about the Incarna Disaster. It had nothing to do with the majority of the players. The Solo players.

People like the OP, a solo player advocate, are also the greatest defenders of the Incarna expansion and the biggest champions of its continued iteration. That is not a coincidence. Incarna, and its predecessor Tyrannis, were great examples of the folly of catering to the solo player, the casual carebear. And when one of them asserts their claim to the reigns of New Edene, it behooves ye to caste them out.


What have you been smoking? :)
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#258 - 2013-01-23 23:56:25 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:



I'm sure I don't fit your mold, and lots of other play eve who are just like me.


WIS? To quote a few words from a song from the 1960s. "What is it good for?"
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#259 - 2013-01-24 00:01:05 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:



Sorry, Mara, but your opinions are pretty much irrelevant. As a 'Yes' person for CCP, you are doing well, though.

You missed the point totally. It's not all about YOU.
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#260 - 2013-01-24 00:04:50 UTC
Don't get started on mining. It isn't what the thread is about, and I doubt that most of you know anything about it, no matter how many Orcas you have.