Player Features and Ideas Discussion

clearly you have no idea how trading works . . . at any given time i have 20 - 30 billion in buy orders at a time and a corresponding 25 - 30 billion in sells which usually fill in roughly the same time frame! and i am a small small player in the market there are people with billions and billions in legit orders on the market . . .

you want all those orders to be backed up with escrow? you would basically cut all trade done by traders by 75% and octuple the margin on all items . . . that is one of the most insane suggestions ive ever seen on these forums . . .

I have heard suggestions that they should de-list orders that do not have enough ISK in the player's wallet to be fulfilled or for the minimum quantity to be fulfilled. This seems like a great idea at first . . . unless you know anything about database programming.

Allow me to explain:
1. every time a sell or buy order went through, the market server would have to poll the database for every order they have open, do a multiplication operation, and then a comparison operation on each of them.
2. every time the amount in anyone's wallet changed, the market server would have to do the same thing for that person.

do you have any idea what this would do to the markets everywhere?! you think the market in Jita is laggy now? wow . . .

Scamming is part of EVE, kids.

The margin trade scam doesn't make anyone money unless you're buying stuff from them in some form or fashion, first. (Be it a main or an alt.) The only way that happens is if they set you up to buy from them first, and you fell for it.

Go use the trade finding tool on Eve-Central. It will return many, many margin scams. They're very easy to see once you know what you're looking for.

I agree with the point that margin trading is a broken feature that being exploited.

Griefing and scam are legit game play in EVE, however being able to put an order that mechanically prevent other people to fulfill, and again and again, sounds just broken. If someone does so once in real world, he will be bankrupted and that market will not allow him to do it again.

The basic idea can be that margin trading skill should require a non-negative standing with NPC who own that station to be active. If you reputation has been bankrupted to that npc corporation, you should not be able to use the credit system.

Its not about scamming.
Eve wants to be "real" - how many times you can do this kind of scams in the "real" world?
In eve you can do them over and over - no one will be chasing you for this.

CCP have to be consistent - im not accessing the random contract - but 'intergalactic exchange" where i see how much some want to sell/buy.

I don't see any reason WHY if i placing buy order - proper amount of isk is not reserved asap.

I would suggest that current orders stay valid but no new ones be allowed to be placed. Over time they would run out, and your big money players would move to areas where that trading was allowed. If I was serious about it, I'd make it so that you could start using margin trades in .4 limited as if it was at level 1, going all the way to 0.0 where you could use it at level 5. This would give traders a clear progression on that path, and create new trade routes throughout space instead of from highsec hub to highsec hub, without raising the bar to entry.

Likely T2 items would go up, T1 would stay about the same as they would not require supply routes from 0.0 to reach the markets in Highsec. You might even see a drop in prices as you get further from empire due to more efficient trade practices, though of course the trading is riskier both in terms of transports and these market scams.

Things would certainly change. There would definitely be shifts and upsets in the markets. And then Highsec markets would be a place to start your career, not a place to finish it.

Please stop moaning about being caught by the margin trading scam, your greed and poor research is why you got scammed and lost your isk on an expensive item you now can't sell.

Every trader uses this skill legitimately every day, usually with orders at least in the 10's of billions and never once fails to pay for item sold to him. When you get 315 orders with at least half of them being buy orders, you will cherish this skill as we all do.

TLDR: Don't be greedy, do your homework, if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

The things is I have 19 bil of sell orders at the moment and 15 bil of buys but I only have 3 billion isk in Liquid on this character.

So all my buy orders would be marked with a X saying that I can't pay for these items, but there is no way all these buy orders would or could be filled at the same time and I won't default on any of my purchases. Leave the skill as it is, do a little research and don't buy what you can't afford to lose. This is EVE, it's not easy, it's not supposed to be. You learn more things the more you play, little tricks here, game mechanics there. I've been playing close to 3 years and I learn new things everyday I log in.

Stop expecting to be spoon fed, research, attempt, discover and learn then try again.

ok, allow me to reiterate . . . > 1% of trading goes on in low/null NOBODY is moving out to null just because you cant margin trade in high sec; who are they going to trade with? themselves?

That being said seriously, most of the large scale traders use margin trading legitimately, so saying the skills has no legit use is the most moronic thing ever.

The only good idea anyone has ever had is the "request audit" feature, as running a cron job every time a persons wallet changes is impossible.

Also, yes, victims should be blamed; if you ignore the warning signs and walk out in the middle of the train tracks, is it the train's fault that youre an idiot?

I must admit, I'm impressed by these people who have 20b in buy orders and 20b in sell orders but only 2 or 3b in liquid ISK and never default on anything. Bravo.

I don't know that we need to remove the MT scam, as it's already been nerfed into the ground (according to what some of my career scammer acquaintances say), but I do admit that gumming up the market trading reports with falsified and scammy information is annoying at the least.

Yep. EVE wants to be real.

How many times can you fly in a starship in the "real" world? How many times have you died and woken up in a cloned body?

There's plenty about this game that's not real, and it's not just the setting. The Margin Trading skill isn't just for scams. Some people defeat themselves and fall for these scams, but I think a lot of you in this thread would be surprised to realize just how much of the legitimate market operates as it does only because of this skill.

What you people are crying about can't be 'fixed' anyway. There's legitimate trades that fall through all the time. People lose money trying to fill buy orders all the time. If I sell to a legitimate buy order and fill it mere seconds before you, guess what happens? You're left holding the bag with a pile of product you thought you were going to sell, and wondering what the hell happened. Depending on how much you paid for that product, you may still be screwed, even though no one scammed you, and Margin Trading had nothing to do with it.

Buy low, sell high. Don't buy too high and try to sell even higher because of your own greed. If you buy a pile of something and still can't sell it for a profit somewhere after a scam order fails on you, then you're very likely doing it wrong.

Find a likely MT scam? Pick it apart one sale at a time, using product that you purchased CHEAPLY someplace else, or had on hand. Keep selling one item at a time until you have all their escrow money and the order fails. Then laugh all the way to the bank.