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CCP please fix the Hel and Nidhoggur

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Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-01-18 19:44:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Before I joined CCP, the corp I played with celebrated a major milestone when they finally reduced their number of Hels to 0. That is unsurprisingly not what we're aiming for when it comes to ship balance.

I understand that the fact we are focusing on T1 subcaps first is a source of frustration for people flying the long-suffering Minmatar caps, and we're not yet close enough to implementing cap changes to start giving ETAs.

What I can assure you of though is that when we do rebalance caps and supercaps, the weakness of the Minmatar versions will be near the top of our priorities.


Also the minimatar titan bonus is useless because it is not much better than what you get from skirmish links...(Signature reduction... and it doesn't stack)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#22 - 2013-01-18 20:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You should probably note that while the Naglfar does have the lowest DPS of any dreadnought (at least so far as looking at our Alliance fittings goes) it's the only one that has the ability to select damage types pretty much at will without sacrificing DPS.


Not quite true. Projectile ammo still does split damage though, favoring one of the two damage types more than the other, only missiles do a pure damage type. So that would mean that the phoenix is the only dread that can truly select it's damage output type.
Also there is no kinetic dominate short range ammo for projectiles, and even less of a selection of damage types for the other range types.

And for the Nag to be as flexible as it can be it would need to carry 7 types of Projectile ammo and 4 types of missile ammo not including any faction ammo for those special moments. But even still damage type selection is only a boon if have a glaring hole in the target's resists to exploit and you are aware of it.

The Nag in addition to having less than a favorable DPS output as you pointed out. Also has an unfavorable tank compared to the other dreads due to it's slot lay out which you did not mention.

And lets not even speak of the additional training time to use both XL projectiles and dread class missile systems.

*Shrugs*
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#23 - 2013-01-18 20:08:06 UTC
Bob McKenna wrote:
add cap transfer range bonus to the Nid (so it does all 3) and maybe an extra high slot to use it.
Hel...add agility, scan res, cap recharge rate, maybe a F/FB speed bonus to make it the hit-and-run supercarrier?


hit'n'run supercarrier... ?
want to kite the s!ht out of those pesky titans, eh?

i'd rather give it some turrets (which would be equally fail)
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm.
#24 - 2013-01-18 23:42:34 UTC
Posting to admit that I will buy a hel just for its looks.

Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Lowsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net
Mund Richard
#25 - 2013-01-19 00:11:31 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
What about a rof bonus for the drones which is a lot like projectile weapons getting rof bonuses on minmatar ships, that way every carrier's bonus is unique but still fits a similar niche as another carrier ( like the resistance bonuses on caldari and amarr carriers)
Have to be careful with that since an ROF bonus is superior dps-wise to a damage bonus.
It would have to be low enough to stay in line with the gallente ship
I seem to recall some rumour about drones having such a fixed ROF that cannot be altered without burning the code to the ground and then commiting some foul rituals on it's corpse, such as writing a new one.

Might remember wrong ofc.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm.
#26 - 2013-01-19 00:20:54 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Before I joined CCP, the corp I played with celebrated a major milestone when they finally reduced their number of Hels to 0. That is unsurprisingly not what we're aiming for when it comes to ship balance.

I understand that the fact we are focusing on T1 subcaps first is a source of frustration for people flying the long-suffering Minmatar caps, and we're not yet close enough to implementing cap changes to start giving ETAs.

What I can assure you of though is that when we do rebalance caps and supercaps, the weakness of the Minmatar versions will be near the top of our priorities.


I DOn't always fly a hel, but when I do it's to troll my corp

Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Lowsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net
Migrator Soul
Filthy Peasants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#27 - 2013-01-19 00:36:50 UTC
Making the nidhoggur into a ROF dps boat is ********. The whole premise of the nid was to make it THE triage carrier, which it has never, ever been. That title goes to the archon.

What needs to happen is simple, buff the cpu, powergrid, and capacitor, give it a cap transfer range bonus, and some more EHP. As it stands now, the nid is simply laughed at when suggested in a pvp situation, or even PVE, with WH's

I appreciate the response by CCP Fozzie on this issue, and while I know that things that are said on the forums by the developers are not at all promises, I believe he means what he says when he wants to help us out.

Also, long suffering is a bit of an understatement, the minmatar capitals have been useless from the start.. Cry

Sadly, I guess its the price you pay for being the sexiest capitals in the star ocean.

CCP Fozzie, again, without holding you to a timeframe, can we get a guess as to when carrier/dread balancing will be coming down the pipe?
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-01-19 01:00:55 UTC
Migrator Soul wrote:


Also, long suffering is a bit of an understatement, the minmatar capitals have been useless from the start.. Cry


They're still better than the Caldari ones tbh.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-01-19 01:05:31 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Migrator Soul wrote:


Also, long suffering is a bit of an understatement, the minmatar capitals have been useless from the start.. Cry


They're still better than the Caldari ones tbh.

Only the dreadnaught.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#30 - 2013-01-19 01:20:47 UTC
Migrator Soul wrote:
Making the nidhoggur into a ROF dps boat is ********. The whole premise of the nid was to make it THE triage carrier, which it has never, ever been. That title goes to the archon.

What needs to happen is simple, buff the cpu, powergrid, and capacitor, give it a cap transfer range bonus, and some more EHP. As it stands now, the nid is simply laughed at when suggested in a pvp situation, or even PVE, with WH's

I appreciate the response by CCP Fozzie on this issue, and while I know that things that are said on the forums by the developers are not at all promises, I believe he means what he says when he wants to help us out.

Also, long suffering is a bit of an understatement, the minmatar capitals have been useless from the start.. Cry

Sadly, I guess its the price you pay for being the sexiest capitals in the star ocean.

CCP Fozzie, again, without holding you to a timeframe, can we get a guess as to when carrier/dread balancing will be coming down the pipe?


I'd say that the Niddy has always been the best POS repping carrier. In actual PVP situations the (theoretically) superior repping ability is overshadowed by insufficient fittings and a profound lack of local tank. I can't help but think the resist bonuses almost implicitly make the words "Triage Carrier" mean "Archon" (or very pimped wormhole Chimera).

I don't think there's any way forward with the Nidhoggur except to make it focus even more on Triage - which is going to mean giving it better fittings, better capacitor, and a strong local repair bonus. Even still it would be trivially inferior to the Archon because it must rep up damage the Archon never takes due to the resist bonus.

I was shopping around for a place to put my Niddy pilot a while back only to find out people would rather take an "all skills at 3-4" Archon pilot than a "absolutely every skill maxed" Niddy pilot. So depressing.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#31 - 2013-01-19 02:03:10 UTC
Migrator Soul wrote:
Making the nidhoggur into a ROF dps boat is ********. The whole premise of the nid was to make it THE triage carrier, which it has never, ever been. That title goes to the archon.

What needs to happen is simple, buff the cpu, powergrid, and capacitor, give it a cap transfer range bonus, and some more EHP. As it stands now, the nid is simply laughed at when suggested in a pvp situation, or even PVE, with WH's

I appreciate the response by CCP Fozzie on this issue, and while I know that things that are said on the forums by the developers are not at all promises, I believe he means what he says when he wants to help us out.

Also, long suffering is a bit of an understatement, the minmatar capitals have been useless from the start.. Cry

Sadly, I guess its the price you pay for being the sexiest capitals in the star ocean.

CCP Fozzie, again, without holding you to a timeframe, can we get a guess as to when carrier/dread balancing will be coming down the pipe?

Lol if you find i fly pile of dog sh*t sexy, that's your problem but a rof bonus does bring it in line with the gallente carrier as being an equal but opposite bonus ( amarr unique carrier skill vs caldari unique carrier skill)

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#32 - 2013-01-19 02:20:32 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:

Lol if you find i fly pile of dog sh*t sexy, that's your problem but a rof bonus does bring it in line with the gallente carrier as being an equal but opposite bonus ( amarr unique carrier skill vs caldari unique carrier skill)


No, it would not be equal. Also, DPS carrier worst carrier.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Migrator Soul
Filthy Peasants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#33 - 2013-01-19 02:25:39 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:

Lol if you find i fly pile of dog sh*t sexy, that's your problem but a rof bonus does bring it in line with the gallente carrier as being an equal but opposite bonus ( amarr unique carrier skill vs caldari unique carrier skill)


No, it would not be equal. Also, DPS carrier worst carrier.

-Liang


Seconded. One does not fly a carrier for dps. And if you do, you are brain dead.

Liang, I do like your idea of the bonus to local rep/specializing in triage. However, a large problem I have noticed as well, is the lack of range to remote cap transfer. That is another area in where a triage set up is incredibly helpful, if not necessary, and the nid doesn't support that either.

No offense, but repping POS shields, well, is not a good enough reason to train for a nid. Nobody wants to rep structures, unless they enjoy being overly masochistic.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#34 - 2013-01-19 02:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Migrator Soul wrote:

Seconded. One does not fly a carrier for dps. And if you do, you are brain dead.

Liang, I do like your idea of the bonus to local rep/specializing in triage. However, a large problem I have noticed as well, is the lack of range to remote cap transfer. That is another area in where a triage set up is incredibly helpful, if not necessary, and the nid doesn't support that either.

No offense, but repping POS shields, well, is not a good enough reason to train for a nid. Nobody wants to rep structures, unless they enjoy being overly masochistic.


A triage nidhoggur doesn't have the tank to be a successful triage carrier - and EHP isn't going to cut it. It *must* have either a resist or local rep bonus or it will never be better (at triage) than the Archon/Chimera. It just makes me so frustrated. The cap transfer is an acceptable loss (to me) if I can have an actually superior *triage carrier* for repping. :(

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Migrator Soul
Filthy Peasants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#35 - 2013-01-19 02:39:11 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


A triage nidhoggur doesn't have the tank to be a successful triage carrier - and EHP isn't going to cut it. It *must* have either a resist or local rep bonus or it will never be better (at triage) than the Archon/Chimera. It just makes me so frustrated. The cap transfer is an acceptable loss (to me) if I can have an actually superior *triage carrier* for repping. :(

-Liang


I would be willing to accept that compromise as well. The local rep bonus is a good way to look at it, because I don't really see CCP giving it a bonus to resists.
Ayeson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-01-22 15:12:41 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Nag must remain vertical.


I doubt they'll change something like this, but just in case someone -may- be considering it, PLEASE GOD NO!

I ♥ the orthrus
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