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Dev blog: You have insulted my honor - I demand satisfaction! Dueling comes to EVE Online

First post First post
Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#161 - 2013-01-17 19:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Maxpie wrote:
You do realize that the 'slippery slope fallacy' argument does not somehow mean that it is now impossible that the feared result can never come about.
…it just means that connecting event A and event B is irrational and lacks logic.

SlapNuts wrote:
Allowing dueling just makes me think OMG this is WoW
Why is that? Have you been confusing EVE with WoW for long? I've been playing this game for more than half its lifetime and never confused the two in spite of EVE allowing duels all that time…

Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
It's not the announced mechanic that is bad, get it. It's the growing demand and thus the chance of a weird direction to MMO arena stuff.
Seeing as how the “growing demand” was a demand for restoration of lost functionality, there is no change in direction… or indeed any growing demand to begin with.

…which is why I keep returning to the same question: why is it that people are so upset with the restoration of lost mechanics?
Della Monk
Monastery of Drakes
#162 - 2013-01-17 19:49:03 UTC
Maybe 'duel' isn't the best term for this.
Maybe an Indulgence would be a better fit for the function, and the universe to boot
SlapNuts
Weave
#163 - 2013-01-17 19:49:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Maxpie wrote:
You do realize that the 'slippery slope fallacy' argument does not somehow mean that it is now impossible that the feared result can never come about.
…it just means that connecting event A and event B is irrational and lacks logic.

SlapNuts wrote:
Allowing dueling just makes me think OMG this is WoW
Why is that? Have you been confusing EVE with WoW for long? I've been playing this game for more than half its lifetime and never confused the two in spite of EVE allowing duels all that time…



Tippia, if all your going to do is spam ppl here your more in touch with WoW then you might think...try and be constructive and come up with something that actually contributes to this topic.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#164 - 2013-01-17 19:50:14 UTC
'mini mutual wardec'? ;)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Echus Alvari
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2013-01-17 19:52:59 UTC
I don't know how this adds any substance to the eve universe as a concept. It just seems like this a mechanic that is in other games and so was added to this one.

I think this detracts from eveonline. Its hard to put into words but the idea of two pod pilots agreeing to duel sounds stupid. It would make my gameplay less enjoyable if I saw two people dueling in eve.

To me it seems like this makes it more like any other game. Why would two capsuleers duel each other why the hell would concord allow it ? It detracts from the violent vicious and subterfuge nature of eve and makes it less.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#166 - 2013-01-17 19:53:31 UTC
All these slippery slope "duels will lead to arenas" arguments are pretty silly

If we could have them in a roundabout way before way does it matter if they're official now
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#167 - 2013-01-17 19:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Echus Alvari wrote:
I don't know how this adds any substance to the eve universe as a concept. It just seems like this a mechanic that is in other games and so was added to this one.

I think this detracts from eveonline. Its hard to put into words but the idea of two pod pilots agreeing to duel sounds stupid. It would make my gameplay less enjoyable if I saw two people dueling in eve.

To me it seems like this makes it more like any other game. Why would two capsuleers duel each other why the hell would concord allow it ? It detracts from the violent vicious and subterfuge nature of eve and makes it less.



The 'duel' is really telling Concord to **** off and not get involved. That's all it is.

It's allowing, again, people to have a fight without Concord getting involved. The only difference from the pre CW2 mechanic is: The rest of the corp of the person who owned the can can't get involved without Concord taking an interest.

A mutual war dec on a smaller, more personal scale.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#168 - 2013-01-17 19:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
SlapNuts wrote:
Tippia, if all your going to do is spam ppl here your more in touch with WoW then you might think...try and be constructive and come up with something that actually contributes to this topic.
I am. I'm asking a question that tries to shed a light on the rather unreasonable emotional response people have to things getting fixed. Apparently, no-one can come up with a rational answer.

This mechanic was heralded in the exact same breath as CW2.0 was presented. The devs immediately covered their rears by saying that they wanted to retain the option for players to enter into some kind of structured ad-hoc engagements even after the change to theft flagging, and people kept asking for exactly this kind of thing to remedy that loss… and to absolutely no-one's surprise, here we are: the old duelling mechanic reimplemented in a way that works within the new Crimewatch.

So why are people so upset that lost mechanics are being reimplemented as promised? The only difference between old and new is under the new systems, the challenger can't call in neutral logis with impunity… which makes me suspect that all this crying has nothing to do with duels being reinstated at all.
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#169 - 2013-01-17 19:56:27 UTC
"Shall we say pistols at dawn?"
"We can say it, I dunno what it means but we can say it"


It'll be useful for those who lost the ability to do 1v1s, though i'll just stick with leaving highsec for fights I think.. I do not look forward to at least one challenge popping up whenever one undocks from a busy hub Lol

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."

Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2013-01-17 19:56:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:


Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
It's not the announced mechanic that is bad, get it. It's the growing demand and thus the chance of a weird direction to MMO arena stuff.
Seeing as how the “growing demand” was a demand for restoration of lost functionality, there is no change in direction… or indeed any growing demand to begin with.

…which is why I keep returning to the same question: why is it that people are so upset with the restoration of lost mechanics?



You can plain ignore the point and try to look clever or plain do a forum search.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.

Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#171 - 2013-01-17 19:59:14 UTC
I'm just enjoying going back through this thread and seeing looking at how many times people use "dual" instead of "duel."

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#172 - 2013-01-17 20:00:07 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
You can plain ignore the point and try to look clever or plain do a forum search.
Oh, you mean that thing that has nothing to do with what's being discussed here (viz. restoration of lost mechanics), and which doesn't seem to exhibit any “growing demand”?

Why would I search for that?
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#173 - 2013-01-17 20:02:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
You can plain ignore the point and try to look clever or plain do a forum search.
Oh, you mean that thing that has nothing to do with what's being discussed here (viz. restoration of lost mechanics), and which doesn't seem to exhibit any “growing demand”?

Why would I search for that?


So you want to ignore the point. Ok then.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.

SlapNuts
Weave
#174 - 2013-01-17 20:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: SlapNuts
Tippia wrote:
SlapNuts wrote:
Tippia, if all your going to do is spam ppl here your more in touch with WoW then you might think...try and be constructive and come up with something that actually contributes to this topic.
I am. I'm asking a question that tries to shed a light on the rather unreasonable emotional response people have to things getting fixed. Apparently, no-one can come up with a rational answer.

This mechanic was heralded in the exact same breath as CW2.0 was presented. The devs immediately covered their rears by saying that they wanted to retain the option for players to enter into some kind of structured ad-hoc engagements even after the change to theft flagging, and people kept asking for exactly this kind of thing to remedy that loss… and to absolutely no-one's surprise, here we are: the old duelling mechanic reimplemented in a way that works within the new Crimewatch.

So why are people so upset that lost mechanics are being reimplemented as promised? The only difference between old and new is under the new systems, the challenger can't call in neutral logis with impunity… which makes me suspect that all this crying has nothing to do with duels being reinstated at all.


There is nothing broken as my first post in this thread explains there are already the mechanics in this game.

Anyway, you do not have to agree with everyone here but you also do not need to make this your personal crusade, let ppl have their say and if you do choose to respond, try and do it without being insulating.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#175 - 2013-01-17 20:10:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
So you want to ignore the point. Ok then.
I would prefer to ignore irrational and unfounded concerns about unrelated topics, yes, because they are… you know… irrational and unrelated. On might even say off-topic.

But sure, indulge me: how does a restoration of lost functionality — as promised — relate to an implementation of instances and sectioned-off space and no-loss combat (which is what most arena requests are about, and why they never get any traction)? Oh, and why is it that people are so upset that this lost functionality is being restored, again as promised?

SlapNuts wrote:
There is nothing broken as my first post in this thread explains there are already the mechanics in this game.
…a mechanic that was broken by CW2.0 and which is now being restored to its pre-retribution state. Just because there were (incomplete) work-arounds for this broken state doesn't mean it was working properly. Again, this restoration was promised the same moment CW2.0 was presented, and now we have it.

So why are people so upset that this return to the old system has happened as promised?
The only reason I can think of is that neutral logis will be comparatively neutered… so far, I haven't seen any better explanation.
Della Monk
Monastery of Drakes
#176 - 2013-01-17 20:12:21 UTC
SlapNuts wrote:
There is nothing broken as my first post in this thread explains there are already the mechanics in this game.

Anyway, you do not have to agree with everyone here but you also do not need to make this your personal crusade, let ppl have their say and if you do choose to respond, try and do it without being insulating.


We can argue the semantics of 'broken' til the cows come home, but: You used to be able to set up 1v1s with a can anywhere. Now you would have to find a safe.
Maybe not broken entirely, but I'd argue the functionality was diminished at the very least.
URG thrash
Lethal Injection Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#177 - 2013-01-17 20:14:13 UTC
Nothing wrong with yet another form of legal combat without concord getting involved :) Love it........ what took ya so long ccp ? :) just kidding ......
Elmanketticks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#178 - 2013-01-17 20:17:12 UTC
That was just what I told you to do in the Retribution survey yesterday, did you read my mind? Perfect! Thanks :)

The State will not fall. Join us. Fight. Conquer.

edit: disregard that, the state has fallen.

SlapNuts
Weave
#179 - 2013-01-17 20:19:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:


SlapNuts wrote:
There is nothing broken as my first post in this thread explains there are already the mechanics in this game.
…a mechanic that was broken by CW2.0 and which is now being restored to its pre-retribution state. Just because there were (incomplete) work-arounds for this broken state doesn't mean it was working properly. Again, this restoration was promised the same moment CW2.0 was presented, and now we have it.

So why are people so upset that this return to the old system has happened as promised?
The only reason I can think of is that neutral logis will be comparatively neutered… so far, I haven't seen any better explanation.



Let me point out that war dec corps already use a work around that does not flag neutral reps, they can be neutral to you but they could have a relationship with the others corp that that makes it so they do not flag when repping.
I am not sure what you think has been fixed. If this mechanic is allowed in war decs, i do not see it not being there in this system, after all I assume it is the same code that allows corps to fight each other because of a war dec..

Bringing in a broken feature to replace a system already in place that is not broken does not make sence to me.
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#180 - 2013-01-17 20:20:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
So you want to ignore the point. Ok then.
I would prefer to ignore irrational and unfounded concerns about unrelated topics, yes, because they are… you know… irrational and unrelated. On might even say off-topic.

But sure, indulge me: how does a restoration of lost functionality — as promised — relate to an implementation of instances and sectioned-off space and no-loss combat (which is what most arena requests are about, and why they never get any traction)? Oh, and why is it that people are so upset that this lost functionality is being restored, again as promised?


Not sure if you are trolling me, but:

What tells you that the new now official mechanic of consensual highsec pvp without concord interference and with a restriction towards players "outside" do not lead to a (even more) growing demand of arena pvp?

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.