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Can't believe how many CSM/CCP employees want a theme park

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#101 - 2013-01-17 14:58:09 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its funny how the most successful upsurge just happened to be when they did a pvp update.

There is always a spike around expansions and Christmas. And when both fall together then it only gets stronger. Yet, it didn't reach the numbers of the past.


No it went past them. We now have the highest subs in the games history.
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#102 - 2013-01-17 14:58:41 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
all there is is to following along and repeat the same 5 quests over and over again, ala wow.

I'll just go find something else to do, as depressing as that is.


5 different quests you say? What kind of game would just have the same few missions.... oh wait Roll
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2013-01-17 15:01:22 UTC
I love how people are looking at average server connections as an indication of EVE's success rather than the number of active subscriptions. I rarely agree with baltec1 but he's absolutely right.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#104 - 2013-01-17 15:02:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=Anslo]


Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.


Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-01-17 15:05:28 UTC
Mister S Burke wrote:
Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back.


Then with all due respect ot them they're probably not the kind of people who were suited to play EVE Online anyway. EVE Online has never had the mass-market appeal of World of Warcraft and it has never needed or aimed for it. EVE Online is a game in which at any point, at any time after you click undock, you are in danger of losing your ship. It will experience success by continuing in that vein. If you're not prepared to deal with that, you should probably let your subscription lapse.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Anslo
Scope Works
#106 - 2013-01-17 15:06:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Why?

Got any evidence that shows that EVE will die if the core of the game isn't gutted and replaced with the safety every single other failed MMO provides?

Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.


Again with the extremist thinking. Did I say die? Did anyone aside from nutjob, zealot predatory PvP'ers say anything about Eve DYING? No. I said numbers are in decline. This could lead to stagnation. A very different, but just as horrible, outcome for Eve.

And what do ya know, I do have some evidence (that I'm sure you and other predators will twist).

Looking at the all time numbers, 2008-2011 saw wonderful growth. After that, there is an average decline. Even the Christmas/Winter expansion didn't make Eve see 2011 numbers. It's subtle, but it's a trend. It's a decline.
B
BUT NO EVE IS GETTING MOAR SUBSCRIPTIONZ! I can subscribe to a game, but if I'm jaded with what it's become, I'm not going to log in and play. Just try to cancel or wait for the subscription to wane.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#107 - 2013-01-17 15:08:02 UTC
Mister S Burke wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=Anslo]


Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.


Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back.


You lost a badly fitted Giffin in January in a -0.1 system (7GCD-P) to a 6 man gang. Ironicly the only thrasher in the fight was in your own gang.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#108 - 2013-01-17 15:08:56 UTC
Mister S Burke wrote:
Riedle wrote:
[quote=Mister S Burke]CCP do not agree with your flawed definition.

Conclusion: HTFU



Actually they do which is why this topic we are in even exists. CCP knows they can't keep letting the gankers run off new people and they know they have a mob of veteran fanatics to deal with. The choice is clear, throw the die hard old vets under the bus and cater to the new players. Why? The old vets will grumble and won't go to WOW, but the young people will go play a competitors game. Just ask the American republican party what happens when you let the die hard fringe elements fly the ship. Evolve or die.


Both the Dems and the Republicans are rushing towards the center. That makes sense. Closing highsec off from PvP is not the center. That is just the other side of "old vet" extremism.

Allowing players to accumulate massive fortunes with no risk will have a significant impact on the economy.

One of the area's that Eve is head and shoulders above every other MMO out there is the player economy.

I think this huge casual player base of grandmothers, preteen girls and retired milkmen that you keep alluding to might actually be more happy with a feelgood app than a game like Eve, regardless of PvP.

I'm not trying to argue with you here, just pointing out some observations.
Whitehound
#109 - 2013-01-17 15:09:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

And as I said, it's foolish to think that said growth (minimal growth at that) can continue this way for ANOTHER 10 years.


Why?

Got any evidence that shows that EVE will die if the core of the game isn't gutted and replaced with the safety every single other failed MMO provides?

Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.

I have no evidence, but I still say other games fail not because they have safety, but because they are generally crap. I know, such a strong thesis is hard to proof...

Retribution then did not add new ways of dying. One still only dies when one takes too much damage and it is the only way one gets killed.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#110 - 2013-01-17 15:10:27 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Mister S Burke wrote:
Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back.


Then with all due respect ot them they're probably not the kind of people who were suited to play EVE Online anyway. EVE Online has never had the mass-market appeal of World of Warcraft and it has never needed or aimed for it. EVE Online is a game in which at any point, at any time after you click undock, you are in danger of losing your ship. It will experience success by continuing in that vein. If you're not prepared to deal with that, you should probably let your subscription lapse.


Yes, I just think there is a happy medium to get more people into the game as we all know it can take some time for it to "click". It can be hard enough to get around and get going then you add someone blowing up what little you have right at the start. I think things can be made more starter PVE friendly without turning anything into wow. WoW would be as small as EVE if you got stripped naked every time you died.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#111 - 2013-01-17 15:10:39 UTC
What's good about EVE other than that the players are allowed the maximum possible freedom to interact with each other?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#112 - 2013-01-17 15:10:51 UTC
Anslo wrote:


Again with the extremist thinking. Did I say die? Did anyone aside from nutjob, zealot predatory PvP'ers say anything about Eve DYING? No. I said numbers are in decline. This could lead to stagnation. A very different, but just as horrible, outcome for Eve.

And what do ya know, I do have some evidence (that I'm sure you and other predators will twist).

Looking at the all time numbers, 2008-2011 saw wonderful growth. After that, there is an average decline. Even the Christmas/Winter expansion didn't make Eve see 2011 numbers. It's subtle, but it's a trend. It's a decline.
B
BUT NO EVE IS GETTING MOAR SUBSCRIPTIONZ! I can subscribe to a game, but if I'm jaded with what it's become, I'm not going to log in and play. Just try to cancel or wait for the subscription to wane.



You say numbers are in decline yet CCP announce a new subscription record...
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#113 - 2013-01-17 15:11:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:

And as I said, it's foolish to think that said growth (minimal growth at that) can continue this way for ANOTHER 10 years.


Why?

Got any evidence that shows that EVE will die if the core of the game isn't gutted and replaced with the safety every single other failed MMO provides?


Of course he doesn't, no one in the history of "EVE is Dying" has ever had one shred of proof. What they have is self interest, in this case it's the self interest in being right about how bad the current game sucks so CCP will one day "see the light" and make EVE into "what it could one day be".

The fact that EVE has not only survived but thrived when so many "cater to the whims of the players" games has failed should call their world view into question, but of course, it never does. The Fact that EVE works and is fine as is Burns the hell out of them.

Quote:

Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in December, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.


You can see that, I can see that, CCP can see that, but people who can't like EVE for what it is will NEVER be able to accept any level of actual proof you offer. 30 years from now when EVE reaches is 100 millionth sub (piped directly into our brains via Sony +5 implants), people like this will still be around saying "EVE would have like 200 million more subs if!!!"
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2013-01-17 15:12:40 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Looking at the all time numbers, 2008-2011 saw wonderful growth. After that, there is an average decline. Even the Christmas/Winter expansion didn't make Eve see 2011 numbers. It's subtle, but it's a trend. It's a decline.
B
BUT NO EVE IS GETTING MOAR SUBSCRIPTIONZ! I can subscribe to a game, but if I'm jaded with what it's become, I'm not going to log in and play. Just try to cancel or wait for the subscription to wane.


2011 marked the beginning of a series of poor choices and neglectful decisions made by CCP. They've since reversed course and are improving aspects of the game that have been neglected for a while, but damage takes time to repair. Notice that the Christmas expansion has gotten us very close to early 2011 levels.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Whitehound
#115 - 2013-01-17 15:13:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
You say numbers are in decline yet CCP announce a new subscription record...

Do you have a link?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-01-17 15:13:52 UTC
Mister S Burke wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
all there is is to following along and repeat the same 5 quests over and over again, ala wow.

I'll just go find something else to do, as depressing as that is.


5 different quests you say? What kind of game would just have the same few missions.... oh wait Roll


That'd be why I avoid PvE as much as I can.

Although at least eve is fairly honest about how repetitive it's PvE content is.
Unlike WoW where "fiends" kept telling me "it gets awesome at level x" or "raids are amazing".

So I ground my way though fetch quest, escort quest, rescue quest, kill x of y quest and kill x to get why quests from level 1-70. Stopping occasionally to do the odd instance where I had to get and kill x and then I get to go on a raid... well.. not yet, first I need to get special armor blah blah, so I go and get that.

NOW I can raid, wait... this is just an instance... no it is, we're just trudging through waves of mobs and we're on our way to kill x. This is exactly the same as every other one... and then I quit. One of the most boring experience I've had while gaming.

Loss meant nothing because when I failed I lost nothing. Other people were nothing as I had little to gain from them and nothing to lose to them.

That total lack of consequences just lead to a hollow game of repetition.

Anyway, Theme park MMO's fail because there's no way of generating enough new content to keep players distracted long enough for you to generate more new content.

Plus it necessitates power creep which just kills all the early content that you create. Go watch a WoW level 80 do the old level 60 raids solo.

I really hope that CCP don't follow the accounts advice and head this way. Pay attention to the people who know about game design, not the people who know about money.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#117 - 2013-01-17 15:14:00 UTC
Mister S Burke wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=Anslo]


Meanwhile I will just point out that the last expansion in december, which added even more ways to be killed in high sec, has resulted in a boom in player numbers. This tells us that people want to fight in high sec and not be utterly safe.


Wrong, I subbed in December and I am here to tell you it was in spite of the fact that some Thrasher srub suicide ganked my little ship and not because of it. I know at least 3 people who didn't sub because of that kind of BS. They uninstalled and went to another game and never looked back.


Are you saying that you just started playing Eve a couple of months ago?! Just shut up if that's the case! Your opinion is like raw bacon, or cookies made without butter and sugar, or like someone who lives under a bridge and charges a toll. WTF that like thread griefing.
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#118 - 2013-01-17 15:14:21 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:


Both the Dems and the Republicans are rushing towards the center. That makes sense. Closing highsec off from PvP is not the center. That is just the other side of "old vet" extremism.

Allowing players to accumulate massive fortunes with no risk will have a significant impact on the economy.

One of the area's that Eve is head and shoulders above every other MMO out there is the player economy.

I think this huge casual player base of grandmothers, preteen girls and retired milkmen that you keep alluding to might actually be more happy with a feelgood app than a game like Eve, regardless of PvP.

I'm not trying to argue with you here, just pointing out some observations.


What I want to know is just how big a dent that random miner gank really affects the economy. No, we don't have to cater to the angry birds players of course, but there has to be a modernized happy medium.
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#119 - 2013-01-17 15:14:22 UTC
I say its time for another mass protest in ALL trade hubs once again!

..
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#120 - 2013-01-17 15:17:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
What's good about EVE other than that the players are allowed the maximum possible freedom to interact with each other?


Many people don't want freedom, they want guaranteed positive outcomes (just like in real life lol). Most MMOs try to give them that, which is why most fail.