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The Future of Wardecs

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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#221 - 2013-01-18 21:39:06 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Some people care "to much". Some people will not undock because they simply don't want to lose the ship they fly to shoot a red cross.


War dec comes in, I lose a billion ISK.

I usually earn 1 billion ISK a week. We get war dec, I make 0 ISK.

Losing a ship to a war dec'er means the war will be extended another week, costing me another billion ISK. Showing up on a kill board as an easy victim brings in more decs, each costing me another 1 billion ISK.

Don't tell me I care too much about a loss, when they cost me 1 billion ISK a week for each war dec they trigger/extend.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#222 - 2013-01-18 21:44:11 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:

we issue the standard order that no one is to undock in ANYTHING larger than a shuttle or cov ops. log in, throw a skill into queue, log out.

When I see this the only thing I can thing is,

This guy is INTENTIONALLY doing this in active effort to create a problem for the sole purpose of trying to force CCP to change the game.

YOU are the problem; not the mechanics.

You're telling people to act like pussies and then crying when they act like pussies.
I don't beat my cat when he claws something, and I'm not goig to mutilate my pet for acting like a ******* cat.


But oh,
Here's the kicker.

You want everyone to believe that you are constantly prevented from playing EVE because of wardecs, and you are not. You wouldn't be here posting if that was true, you'd have quit a long time ago because you coudn't actually play.

People aren't quitting because they get wardecced and then can't play EVE for weeks at a time.
CCP is not run by morons. If something was having that kind of effect on EVE they would have taken measures to stop it.

If CCP was losing money due to it, they would simply disable the feature until they can get it fixed. Instead, CCP has slowly but steadily grown.




Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#223 - 2013-01-18 21:46:04 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Some people care "to much". Some people will not undock because they simply don't want to lose the ship they fly to shoot a red cross.


War dec comes in, I lose a billion ISK.

I usually earn 1 billion ISK a week. We get war dec, I make 0 ISK.

Losing a ship to a war dec'er means the war will be extended another week, costing me another billion ISK. Showing up on a kill board as an easy victim brings in more decs, each costing me another 1 billion ISK.

Don't tell me I care too much about a loss, when they cost me 1 billion ISK a week for each war dec they trigger/extend.


How is it CCP's problem that you can't play EVE without failing? That's all you're saying.

"I get deced, I undock with a billion isk ship and lose, or I dock and make nothing."

As if those are your only two options.


Stop being bad at EVE , guy.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#224 - 2013-01-18 21:51:53 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

This guy is INTENTIONALLY doing this in active effort to create a problem for the sole purpose of trying to force CCP to change the game.


Wrong. We don't undock as a tool to make CCP change the mechanic. We don't undock, because we want to PVE, not PVP. We can only do that if we are not in war. The way to limit the amount of time at war is to be sure you don't lose ships to war dec'ers.


Natsett Amuinn wrote:

But oh,
Here's the kicker.

You want everyone to believe that you are constantly prevented from playing EVE because of wardecs, and you are not. You wouldn't be here posting if that was true, you'd have quit a long time ago because you coudn't actually play.


IF we were at war 75% of the time, sure, we'd quit. BECAUSE we never give war dec'ers any kills, we actually only get a war dec for a week, every other month or so.


Natsett Amuinn wrote:

People aren't quitting because they get wardecced and then can't play EVE for weeks at a time.
CCP is not run by morons. If something was having that kind of effect on EVE they would have taken measures to stop it.


And, guess what. CCP is thinking of making changes to stop it. Hmmmm...
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2013-01-18 21:55:39 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

"I get deced, I undock with a billion isk ship and lose, or I dock and make nothing."

As if those are your only two options.


Stop being bad at EVE , guy.


You don't get it. It isn't that I lose a billion ISK ship. I lose the 1 billion ISK that I didn't earn.

I am not bad at EVE. War dec, I bore the dec'er by not undocking. No war dec, I undock and make 1 billion ISK a week.

You want to kill me. I don't want to kill you, nor have you kill me. I don't give you the chance to kill me. I win, you lose.

It is the people that dec industrialists, then get bored when they won't undock, that are bad at EVE.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#226 - 2013-01-18 22:02:44 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:


Wrong. We don't undock as a tool to make CCP change the mechanic. We don't undock, because we want to PVE, not PVP. We can only do that if we are not in war. The way to limit the amount of time at war is to be sure you don't lose ships to war dec'ers.

Yeah, and I smoke pot for "medical" reasons. What?

You do not have the right to complain about PvP in a game explicitly designed around PvP. I really do mean you do not have the right.

At no point were you forced to play, and you were perectly aware of that EVE is a PvP focused game when you started.

Just like I don't have the right to go to the developers of Hearth and Home and complain that their game has no PvP, I don't even think you can fight other people in it.
Quote:


IF we were at war 75% of the time, sure, we'd quit. BECAUSE we never give war dec'ers any kills, we actually only get a war dec for a week, every other month or so.

Great!

We both agree that the wardec mechanic doens't prevent you from being able to play, and therefor not causing you to quit.
It's nice to agree on things.

Quote:


And, guess what. CCP is thinking of making changes to stop it. Hmmmm...


Well you're just wrong.

They're thinking about how they can IMPROVE the system, not stop it.
You are never going to get around being able to be wardecced if in a player run corp.

Don't like it, go back to the NPC corp, that's why they're there.


You have every right and justification to tell us as much as you like that you do not like PvP, you are not in any possition to tell us the game should be changed to better suit you.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#227 - 2013-01-18 22:07:13 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

"I get deced, I undock with a billion isk ship and lose, or I dock and make nothing."

As if those are your only two options.


Stop being bad at EVE , guy.


You don't get it. It isn't that I lose a billion ISK ship. I lose the 1 billion ISK that I didn't earn.

I am not bad at EVE. War dec, I bore the dec'er by not undocking. No war dec, I undock and make 1 billion ISK a week.

You want to kill me. I don't want to kill you, nor have you kill me. I don't give you the chance to kill me. I win, you lose.

It is the people that dec industrialists, then get bored when they won't undock, that are bad at EVE.

In the meantime you continue to behaive as though you have only two options.

Dock and not make money, or undock in my billion isk ship and get blown up.

You didn't even understand that I was critisizing you for not understanding that EVE isn't black and whie and you have option inbetween those.

You ALWAYS have the option to fight back.
You ALWAYS have an option to go back to the NPC corps.

The beauty of the sandbox is that there is very little black and white, we play with grey sand.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#228 - 2013-01-18 22:09:35 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You do not have the right to complain about PvP in a game explicitly designed around PvP. I really do mean you do not have the right.

At no point were you forced to play, and you were perectly aware of that EVE is a PvP focused game when you started.


I think you should present this argument to CCP. The ease by which people like me can avoid PVP has brought in too many players and too much revenue for CCP. Tell CCP they should make the game more about PVP and make it harder to avoid PVP, because those people that don't like PVP should not be playing or making money for CCP.

People that want to PVP should PVP against other players that want to PVP, and they should stop thinking of carebear's as potential PVP targets.

What's the matter? Can't win a fight against someone that is actually ready and looking to fight back?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#229 - 2013-01-18 22:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
@ LHA Tarawa

What would make you want to fight the aggressors in the war dec? Not have to, want to.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2013-01-18 22:14:36 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
In the meantime you continue to behaive as though you have only two options.

Dock and not make money, or undock in my billion isk ship and get blown up.


Are you just not reading what I said, or are you reading, but are too stupid to understand.

The billion ISK I lose is NOT the cost of a ship I would lose. That is the money I didn't earn because I couldn't mine or mission. Opportunity cost!

Natsett Amuinn wrote:
I
You ALWAYS have the option to fight back.
You ALWAYS have an option to go back to the NPC corps.

The beauty of the sandbox is that there is very little black and white, we play with grey sand.


Fight back means more war decs. More war decs means more opportunity cost of not being able to mine/mission.

I've said it 3 times, hopefully a 4th it will sink in. Every week I'm at war is a week I can't earn 1 billion ISK. Therefore, I do everything I can to not be at war, short of dropping the corp/alliance where I hang out with my friends.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2013-01-18 22:16:47 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
@ LHA Tarawa

What would make you want to fight the aggressors in the war dec? Not have to, want to.


NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I wanted to PVP, I would be in a null-sec PVP corp. I want to be a high sec industrialist, avoiding PVP.

People need to get that through their skulls. The people that do not want to PVP, DO NOT WANT TO PVP! There is nothing you can do to make them suddenly want to PVP!

Any attempt to force me to PVP will simply result in me quitting the game. How does that help anyone?
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#232 - 2013-01-18 22:21:48 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
@ LHA Tarawa

What would make you want to fight the aggressors in the war dec? Not have to, want to.


NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I wanted to PVP, I would be in a null-sec PVP corp. I want to be a high sec industrialist, avoiding PVP.

People need to get that through their skulls. The people that do not want to PVP, DO NOT WANT TO PVP! There is nothing you can do to make them suddenly want to PVP!

Any attempt to force me to PVP will simply result in me quitting the game. How does that help anyone?


People like this are the exact reason why decs must remain non-consensual. All people like this add to the game is an ISK faucet. You really want to remove the only check in place that limits him? You really want to give him a free pass to have a large economic impact on the game without anyone ever being able to interfere?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#233 - 2013-01-18 22:22:03 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You do not have the right to complain about PvP in a game explicitly designed around PvP. I really do mean you do not have the right.

At no point were you forced to play, and you were perectly aware of that EVE is a PvP focused game when you started.

Snip (more complaining about having to pvp.

You're a lost cause to be honest.

No one is saying you should be forced to pvp, and CCP isn't interested in finding ways to force you to fight in a wardec. If you want to stay docked that's fine, stay docked. It's a legit tactic.

However, you have other options, and the fix for the wardec system isn't to remove or reistrict it.


Just because you're a high sec industrialist doesn't mean you have no reason to fight with other industrialists. I shouldn't have to go into another longwinded post just to epxlain to you why.

This is EVE, and things are not black and white.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#234 - 2013-01-18 22:23:46 UTC
90% of people who are choosing the wrong game to play? Or is it a role they were misinformed on?

As is with Eve's gameplay, people to do have a right to spend their money as they see fit, but that doesn't mean you can't make a poor decision.

If you have 1000 "try" the game and 10% stay on, that's 10% of people you did NOT have before.

I'm sure Tera and spidermonkeysandyouonline had the same thing happen. It's called "not knowing what you got yourself into before researching". (Don't google the spidermonkeys game I made it up).

I found out the same thing almost 10 years ago when I first tried Eve. Tons of games later I found Eve does gear and suit me better than it did 10 years ago, and I don't even notice the changes from what it was then, just my mentaltiy and need for instant gratification has changed from the hardcore raider I was in Everquest and fps shooter in COD4.

In regards to wardecs... well, watch lists are amazing. So is the ability to take your ship elsewhere if your home system is known.

But the mechanic allowing an established pvp corp preying on newbie corps for kb padding is.. well, distasteful. But so are pirates who don't honor their ransom demands so there you go.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#235 - 2013-01-18 22:24:17 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Just because you're a high sec industrialist doesn't mean you have no reason to fight with other industrialists. I shouldn't have to go into another longwinded post just to epxlain to you why.

This is EVE, and things are not black and white.



He's not an industrialist - he's a PvEer. The guys adds nothing but inflation to the game.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#236 - 2013-01-18 22:24:38 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
@ LHA Tarawa

What would make you want to fight the aggressors in the war dec? Not have to, want to.


NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I wanted to PVP, I would be in a null-sec PVP corp. I want to be a high sec industrialist, avoiding PVP.

People need to get that through their skulls. The people that do not want to PVP, DO NOT WANT TO PVP! There is nothing you can do to make them suddenly want to PVP!

Any attempt to force me to PVP will simply result in me quitting the game. How does that help anyone?


People like this are the exact reason why decs must remain non-consensual. All people like this add to the game is an ISK faucet. You really want to remove the only check in place that limits him? You really want to give him a free pass to have a large economic impact on the game without anyone ever being able to interfere?

I'll be the one to say it.

The truth is, people like him need to be driven from EVE.

He needs to be wardecced and ganked util he gets it through his thick skull that he does not get to avoid PvP.
That mentality is a cancer that does not need to be propigated throughout the rest of the community.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2013-01-18 22:25:00 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
@ LHA Tarawa

What would make you want to fight the aggressors in the war dec? Not have to, want to.


NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I wanted to PVP, I would be in a null-sec PVP corp. I want to be a high sec industrialist, avoiding PVP.

People need to get that through their skulls. The people that do not want to PVP, DO NOT WANT TO PVP! There is nothing you can do to make them suddenly want to PVP!

Any attempt to force me to PVP will simply result in me quitting the game. How does that help anyone?



I don't think it's us needing to understand that nowhere in Eve is safe, only some places are safER.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#238 - 2013-01-18 22:25:23 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
@ LHA Tarawa

What would make you want to fight the aggressors in the war dec? Not have to, want to.


NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I wanted to PVP, I would be in a null-sec PVP corp. I want to be a high sec industrialist, avoiding PVP.

People need to get that through their skulls. The people that do not want to PVP, DO NOT WANT TO PVP! There is nothing you can do to make them suddenly want to PVP!

Any attempt to force me to PVP will simply result in me quitting the game. How does that help anyone?


People like this are the exact reason why decs must remain non-consensual. All people like this add to the game is an ISK faucet. You really want to remove the only check in place that limits him? You really want to give him a free pass to have a large economic impact on the game without anyone ever being able to interfere?


Actually, now that mining is more profitable than missioning, I've not been an ISK faucet for about 6 months. Now I just mine, maintaining the current equilibrium of price stability.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#239 - 2013-01-18 22:28:23 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Just because you're a high sec industrialist doesn't mean you have no reason to fight with other industrialists. I shouldn't have to go into another longwinded post just to epxlain to you why.

This is EVE, and things are not black and white.



He's not an industrialist - he's a PvEer. The guys adds nothing but inflation to the game.

He wants to be a high sec industrialist, that has the ability to effect ME; another industrialist, but doesn't want me to be able to stop him from doing it.

That's what he wants.


I have every right, need, and incentive, to prevent him from being able to do business. Every single industrialist not in his corp, regardless of where they play, is impacted by his actions and should want his ability to operate hindered.

He doesn't understand that when he's not doing business, I can make more isk.
Unfortunately there are mechanics that dfon't let US THE PLAYERS have the impact we should be able to have, because he can just drop corp and continue doing what he's doing from behid the safety of an NPC corp with no negative impact.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#240 - 2013-01-18 22:28:36 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

The truth is, people like him need to be driven from EVE.

He needs to be wardecced and ganked util he gets it through his thick skull that he does not get to avoid PvP.
That mentality is a cancer that does not need to be propigated throughout the rest of the community.


The truth is that CCP is not going to allow people like me to be driven from EVE because we are too much of their revenue.

Perhaps rather than trying to figure out how to screw CCP out of much needed revenue by trying to drive people like me out of the game, you should go look for some people that want to PVP to have fun PVPing.