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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

First post First post
Author
Xaerana Arkanum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1321 - 2013-01-17 17:46:07 UTC
Please fix POS's
Cid Tazer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1322 - 2013-01-17 17:46:30 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Cid Tazer wrote:
Ayeson wrote:
Cid Tazer wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think pitchforks and rage will change Unifex's opinion on this. . . . . . . Data on the other hand is a much better tool to get the general point across.

For CCP: What metric did Unifex/Seagull/Ripley/Soundwave use to come to the conclusion that the major POS work would effect a small number of people?

For Players: What kind of metric do you think would show CCP how important changing the state of POSes is?



I HOPE twelve hundred posts in 12 hours will have more weight on his opinion than you think.


That's not really hard data and 1200 posts means nothing if they are from 20 people.

Number of towers per corp would be a metric, number of hours involved in doing simple pos tasks, number of characters that are involved in accessing a pos per day. . . . . . . those are the metrics that I think will mean more than forum posts.


Those are poor metrics, because POS are in many ways so broken that all but the most masochistic of enablers and instigators work with them, on behalf of everyone else.

That's something CCP can change.


Conversely, if you have say 5 characters maintaining 1000 poses because they are the only masochistic people in the corp, that tells you something as well.
Leskit
Pure Victory
#1323 - 2013-01-17 17:46:39 UTC
Agreed! CCP: fix the damn pos!

Perhaps pos management is only used by a "small" part of the community because it's one of the most broken down systems in the game.

But poses affect a very large part of the player base otherwise. How many hi-sec systems dont' have a pos? Same for lo-sec. I'm a WH dweller, and we have no choice but to use the system. While I haven't had any nullsec experience in over 2 years, i'm wondering if outposts are so popular in direct relation to pos's being so bad.

At the very least, could we get these features pushed out asap:
  • The tab system used to be workable...but it's frustrating when it's tied to roles. Allow us to add as many tabs as we individually need (for any pos module that uses tabs for storage)
  • Let us assign individual tabs to individual pilots, not just each tab per role, or each hanger per role.
  • This is the absolute minimum that would help alleviate the management and initial pain-in-the-ass part of pos's

    Something that would take more time, but is food for thought:
  • Let us group the hangers (sma's and cha's) into large chunks instead of having all that space between them. A large cube that had all thos services--our at least that could be placed much closer together--would ease layout problems.
  • Let us condense the space between pos modules so a drug manufacturing farm (and any other pos activity that takes multiple modules) doesn't take 8km of linear space (see above point).
  • This would be a good start that would make the logistics of using a pos a bit easier.

    Faction warfare wasn't working, so you went and spent a lot of time fixing it.
    Nullsec is constantly being adjusted (or perhaps more accurately, you're always looking for ways to make it better).
    crimewatch and stuff wasn't to your liking so you changed it.
    You've modified the UI.
    You're balancing ships.
    Great! Now i'm assuming that the POS coding is either a lot more complicated or just old and needs to be replaced, but that's not a reason to leave it alone! We don't play EVE because it's easy, and we don't expect you to only fix the problems that have easy to alter code.Evil
    Per Bastet
    B.O.O.M
    Obsidian Mining Coalition
    #1324 - 2013-01-17 17:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Per Bastet
    The Corps in my Alliance also Use alot of POSes in High sec - Please CCP consider the players

    "Whether the paranoid conspiracy theory community has had a separate trial process and decided other crazy batshit insane garbage was true I can't attest to as I don't subscribe to that mailing list and instead deal in the realm of fact."  - CCP Sreegs, 2013

    Ayeson
    Hard Knocks Inc.
    Hard Knocks Citizens
    #1325 - 2013-01-17 17:47:07 UTC
    mynnna wrote:
    Cid Tazer wrote:
    Ayeson wrote:
    Cid Tazer wrote:
    Unfortunately I don't think pitchforks and rage will change Unifex's opinion on this. . . . . . . Data on the other hand is a much better tool to get the general point across.

    For CCP: What metric did Unifex/Seagull/Ripley/Soundwave use to come to the conclusion that the major POS work would effect a small number of people?

    For Players: What kind of metric do you think would show CCP how important changing the state of POSes is?



    I HOPE twelve hundred posts in 12 hours will have more weight on his opinion than you think.


    That's not really hard data and 1200 posts means nothing if they are from 20 people.

    Number of towers per corp would be a metric, number of hours involved in doing simple pos tasks, number of characters that are involved in accessing a pos per day. . . . . . . those are the metrics that I think will mean more than forum posts.


    Those are poor metrics, because POS are in many ways so broken that all but the most masochistic of enablers and instigators work with them, on behalf of everyone else.

    That's something CCP can change.


    Confirming.

    And I think CCP have a way of determining how many unique posters there actually are in this thread, if they weren't, well...someone needs to fix that pronto. Also, up to 1300
    Deadcode Analord
    Doomheim
    #1326 - 2013-01-17 17:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Deadcode Analord
    Cid Tazer wrote:
    Number of towers per corp would be a metric, number of hours involved in doing simple pos tasks, number of characters that are involved in accessing a pos per day. . . . . . . those are the metrics that I think will mean more than forum posts.


    First metric: No indication, the headache of management is a serious deterrent.

    Second metric: impossible to calculate. Can CCP reference the hours of chat log trying to make an alliance POS available for corp manufacturing, adding up the now three weeks of waiting on a petition on the issue still resulting in no response from CCP at all? Or the hours I've spent on the phone with my CEO and other directors trying to bang our heads against the wall about permissions and tab access?

    Third metric: Also a poor indicator, 1st and 2nd points touch on that already, the nightmare of management is the single biggest deterrent.

    When I have to say "No we can't do it that way, the game mechanic doesn't allow it" at least 5 times a week, it needs addressed, and it needs addressed this summer.
    Suri Rykken
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #1327 - 2013-01-17 17:48:19 UTC
    Working with POS's sucks, please fix them.
    XBLazeLX
    Stone Circle
    #1328 - 2013-01-17 17:49:08 UTC
    W-Space for POS-changes!
    RobTheRad
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #1329 - 2013-01-17 17:49:34 UTC
    Managing a POS is horrible. Please fix them.
    Kat Davenport
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #1330 - 2013-01-17 17:49:41 UTC
    As part of Test Logistics, I have had to set up a deathstar pos, then I ran out of prescription antidepression meds and decided to stop before I went and jumped off a bridge. Please, fix POS.
    Belial Arkanum
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #1331 - 2013-01-17 17:50:05 UTC
    Please fix
    Gwyneth
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #1332 - 2013-01-17 17:51:02 UTC
    mynnna wrote:


    Those are poor metrics, because POS are in many ways so broken that all but the most masochistic of enablers and instigators work with them, on behalf of everyone else.

    That's something CCP can change.

    Yeah, lets encourage CCP to make business decisions based on no data. It did wonders for the Incarna expansion.
    Raid'En
    #1333 - 2013-01-17 17:51:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Raid'En
    We get it that you didn't said you won't do it. We get it it's hard, and may need iterations on more than one expansion.
    But we don't agree about POS being for only a small part of the population, and we also don't agree about the project being postponed AGAIN.

    To try another approach, like used by Poetic, saying a revamp would be good for new players, I'll give you a little story.

    When I began EVE 5 year ago, I was coming from WoW, and obviously wasn't too fond of PvP. it took me time to try a player corporation, and I choosed to join one having guys from a previous game I played. But before that (dunno if joining them is a good choice, and hey EVE is scary, maybe they want to eat me ? - don't laught, I got can baited on the noon system on my first mission, 30mn after creating my first char, was still allowed at this time), I tried creating my own corp, and that's how I first left the NPC corp. Why ? Because I wanted a POS.

    At this time, I was playing around Rens, and mined in Abudban, one jump from it. But due to my poor computer, it tooked so much time docking and undocking, that I though it would better to be able to drop my cargo somewhere else. At the same time I was interested by doing some production stuff, but obviously there's no slots available, be it to manufacture or research.
    The system was 0.7 and so allowed POS. There was an empty slot available (and as a carebear had no issues of standings), so I put my own POS, to empty my cargo of ice, and try some research.

    What do I remember ?
    That it sucked so much. That is my home ? But it's HIDEOUS ! That's a pile of junk in space!
    One of the true reason I wanted a POS was also to have my own thing, my own house... but how can a new player like these things ? It's horrible. Modular POS can change that totally.
    Obviously, I also hated how it was complicated to manage that... UI suck so much, and you need to move so much due to the 2500meters things, and how it's hard to put modules closes one to another (and if you fail you need to unanchor and reanchor these... at least you changed the time to anchor/online some time ago, it's always that earnt).
    I suppose you realize that for a new player, a small POS is really expansive (I was around one month old). And even if I was doing *things* on it, the fact that it had so much pain, and was so hideous made me quickly change my mind : this thing is not worth it. I wanted it, but it was like YOU didn't wanted me to.

    End of the noob story.
    Foxtrot Yankee
    #1334 - 2013-01-17 17:51:19 UTC
    Like you all, I am a small portion of the community that uses POSes.

    Im mad

    Its mind blowing how they despise us like this, I don't know what is worse

    the "Greed is good" episode or now the new "You are a small portion of the community, we don't care about you" episode


    CCP is doing it all over again, they didn't learn nothing!
    Heribeck Weathers
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #1335 - 2013-01-17 17:51:39 UTC
    I strongly Think POSs need a good revamp, because everyone needs their own little sand castle in eve, and crushing sand castles will make many people happy,

    I would love to own a POS that didnt make me pull my hair out, and also had some reasons to use it above living in a station.

    Tho I also think POSs hangers and ship bays shouldnt be able to be accessed while in reinforced, There needs to be a way to stop people from moving all their stuff out in high and low sec. Because a loot pinata is not fun its all the candy is taken out before it pops.
    Tover Chris
    Suicide Kings
    #1336 - 2013-01-17 17:52:09 UTC
    Grath Telkin wrote:

    How about you stop making excuses and give us another one. Pos's suck, they're all through the game and they're pretty much worse than masturbating with a cheesegrater.


    I want to have your babies.
    scotayne hawkins
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #1337 - 2013-01-17 17:52:15 UTC
    ok i undertsand the short sighted view of only a few would be effected by a POS change, but consider this

    0.0 towers supply majority of t2 reacted material or moon goo to do it from to make everything t2
    w-space supplies all t3 ships and subsystems and reactions from gas

    all t1 and capital bpo copying in empire that is run from inside stations due to security issues.

    right now you have an idea of just how much is supplied to markets from the use of POS's and how many pilots are actually effected by POS usage directly or in-directly does effect alot more than just a small group are effected by POS and their workings.

    graphiclly i think everyone is thinking the same we dont care.

    we just need something thats got our asset security in mind or minimium some sort of logging system on asset movements to aid us all catching and proving corp theifts quickly.

    for us w-space guys assembling our t3 and redoing sub systems would be highly greatful.
    and i expect many would be greatful of the option to repackage stuff hitting hanger item limit counts is very annoying
    Remo Naskal
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #1338 - 2013-01-17 17:52:17 UTC
    No one except masochists like the current POS system. Are you catering to the masochists now?
    silens vesica
    Corsair Cartel
    #1339 - 2013-01-17 17:52:17 UTC
    Ravenstain wrote:


    And I would still like to see CCP Unifex and CCP Seagull give some attention to this thread, as it seems that theyr statements are what got all this started. Im sure CCP Gargant is a great guy, but for me this needs some response for the original source of the statements.

    This is would be good, and should be done.

    Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

    Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

    Parsefona
    Tiberian Shadow
    #1340 - 2013-01-17 17:52:17 UTC
    W-Space for POS-changes!