Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm sure you have many, many internet proofs that you are a games programmer, and I could just about make all the assertions that I am indeed a programmer and space pope as well. Literally no more than 50 extra operations with a 256vs 256( max fleet vs the same)?
Certainly nitpicking, but each person requiring a sever request of hasfired gun, skill of gun( including all skills related), number of guns that have been fired ( were they grouped), Time of gun in refernce to everyone elses firing ( who had the first shot, second third), ( so far this is standard, and probably not how the code runs at all) damage delt then applied to target ship requiring a server inquery as to active modules, skills, angular velocity sig radius et al to get the damage. Then according you your system they get ranked, ( a single operation) and then damage applied up to the 100% mark, for this tick and a call for the damage of all involved shooting that target in the previous 10 seconds, which would likely be one operation per person in local (512 if only fleet people are in local,After all there is such a thing as friendly fire. ). This is before the damage is applied and a server call made for skills, angular velocity restsis etc. for the victim.

Then the numbers:
Say 106 ships are logi support and command, on each side. Its an absurd assumption that lets us have a nice round 150 fleet fit ships, all identical but ( according to your numbers)


(italic emphasis mine, it lets you backpedal, the number 21 is based on your repetition of 4.5 as difference for ship #7 and #8)

Any extra ships that have targeted you and fired at you, regardless of damage after the 21st (or insert backpedaled and calculated number) ship will not have any recordable damage. In battles with f1 jockeys, I have killmails with my combat main that have 69 ships on the damage roster for that primary. So just under 1/2 of the ships landed a shot. In such battles many people can't lock the primary, so they end up firing at the secondary because the primary dissapears in a poof, and their already mashed f1 key gets translated to the next target, which also frequently goes poof.
Well if that one primaried ship survives the alpha of 21 ships of the 150, the remaining locking slowpokes will output damage of 0, and be ranked higher next tick, the locked secondary has nothing to worry about, untill at least the third shot, or if logi are doing their job well ( and damn theres alot of them at 106 logi and support), EVER. Now, if the guns fire faster than 10s per volley, all of the 2nd volley damage will be placed and ranked as if it were 1 volley as it will have happened within 10 seconds of the second tick, and the damage applied there in your calculations.
Congrats, now all guns fire at the same rate of 1 tick +10 seconds, game subjective time, and ships just have to worry about having just enough ehp to stand a 21 person volley every tick +10 seconds.




Whatever i'm smoking its better than the kool-aid you're trying to push on everyone else

I think it should depend on who or what is on grid or in a more complicated method based on how close you personally were to targets. If you are flying solo and run into a camp with 8 guys on grid mitigation would not take effect and you would take full damage/cap drain/ECM ect.

However if you are flying with 30 guys into another fleet of 30-40 guys mitigation would kick in. With 60-70 people on grid mitigation would count after say the third ship. That would look like this:
ship 1 = 100%
ship 2 = 100%
ship 3 = 100%
ship 4 = 95%
ship 5 = 90%
ship 6 = 83%
ect ect... (numbers are just for example not real numbers that would be used)

This means small forces of say 20 against 20 will feature minimal mitigation as these are around what fleet sizes should be where as 100 against 100 would have high mitigation.

The problem with it being based on grid however is that a fleet of 20 vs 100 would likely run into the same mitigation as a 100 vs 100. While this still makes it inefficient for the fleet of 100, it totally screws the 20 making the change kind of pointless.

The other method is based on ship position and uses something similar to sig radius. Each ship would have this range which I'll call Range to Damage Mitigation (RDM). As ships enter into the RDM they gain damage mitigation reducing that ships outgoing damage. The more ships inside your RDM, the higher the damage mitigation and the less damage you deal.

Now that we have this new thing we can do quite a lot with it actually. Certain ships could use it to fit roles, for instance destroyers would have a very small RDM because their role is a frigate killer. So when engaging a fleet that will engage at close range destroyers wouldn't run into much damage mitigation.

A battleship would likely have a high RDM as they are heavy and large platforms with more cumbersome guns. This means battleships need to operate in a more strategic manner to keep their DPS high. Certain ships which require extremely close ranges such as blaster ships could have a slightly lower RDM to balance while still having a much higher RDM then anything of a lower ship class.

This way battle groups become more important and large scale blob battles would give the defend a huge advantage as a blob will have huge damage mitigation until they get their fleet organized. Furthermore smaller fleets will be far more effective and efficient then large scale battles.

The other issue is with how much damage mitigation the ship sees based on what has entered into its RDM. I think something around 0.01% damage mitigation or so per ships base sig radius inside the RDM would work nicely.

So if you're in a fleet of Rokhs and you have 6 other Rokhs inside your RDM you would get (500*6)*0.01= 30% of your damage mitigated. Damage mitigation would be capped at 50% for most ships.
Capital ships would act slightly different as how they get affected by RDM would likely be broken so the math for them would need to be changed on both sides (sub caps interacting with capitals and capitals intere

This is so extremely ambiguous, not to mention extremely foolish, as there IS the sig radius, plus gun and ammo range modifiers. Don't mess with shiptypes vs other shiptypes, thats why the system that is already here IS here. Its been refined, it doesn't need extra tiny poitless nerfs. plus it seems there magic number usage. I have NO idea where you got that 500 for example. Not only that but the Blob nerfs have not been explained to me as to WHY they would occur other than "we don't like blobs" what form of spacemagic reason do you have for your RDM?

Extra complexity just because you can is just asking for abuse. The OP doesn't even have a good reason for his hatred of Blobs other than " it takes no skill" "blobs ruin it for everyone" and "big kids on the playground shouldn't win"

It is the way things go, theres other ways to counter everything without having to resort to malicious tinkering. I'm amazed that half the blob warfare happens with the amount of asshattery this game produces. Getting a decent fleet comp, getting people to know their roles, fit ships properly, get on the right targets, right distances and have good large scale fights the like of which you'll find nowhere else, is damn difficult, takes organization and competence. This isn't WOW, or SWTOR or any other hippie paradise. This is EVE. Its gritty, its nasty, it will take the shirt from you characters back and its underwear too. Some people take internet spaceships too seriously, and they're not the ones in the blob, or at least not for long.

The main players have all at one time been bitter enemys, untrusting allies and indifferent alienated inhabitants of complely seperate remote areas. They don't cry about losses, they take what comes and go on, because it is a game, and blob warfare, 4+ hour *single* battles between 1000's of people don't happen anywhere else. Blob naysayers want coordination and organization to go back to the level of hunter gathering and spearshaking primitives.

Find a place in eve for yourself. Get some friends. Make sure your friends have friends. Get in a blob. Fight for something worth having, be ready to write off your losses as a GF even if you get popped on the opening shot. Its not for everyone, but it could be for you. If you haven't seen a 200+ person get wiped out by a 100 person fleet while sitting in something you could lose in that battle, you have not seen proper blob warfare. If you have not stomped/gotten stomped by a 200+ vs 200+ fleet battle you have not seen blob warfare. If you haven't been in a system of 1200 people determined to see at least 900 corpses from the other 2-3 sides the same space you haven't experienced enough to want blob warfare nerfed.

Blobs happen. Re-ship, move on.

The Sig radius refence is good to know, explains a bit more. Possibly if it were tied to incomming damage rather than space/ sig encroachment, as a distracing measure, like shellshock. perhaps you take the primary the FC gives but randomly pick your own targets to put a turret on to throw their alpha off.

What you have reminds me more of a "stacking penalty" in terms of occupying space in a pen and paper game sense, whereas incomming fire would incur a suppresion quality. Why I am against it is that i don't actually see the system as being broken at all.

I have not been in fleet battles for a while, but we used to go out and have arranged fights with IRC. They were good guys, despite the propaganda that they were the next best thing to scrubs. They'd be game for GoodFights, and once Mr. Vee took us out for 1:1 battle in Hurricanes to meet their forces who were flying drakes, the understanding was we didn't leave untill the other side lost it all or damn near close enough, and they wouldn't leave under the same conditions. That was actually a very close thing with 4 canes leaving the field and about the same for them. There was no logi, no tackle, just full on 100+ change vs much the same number. Some of the best fun I had took place in even battles, with both sides properly informed about the numbers involved.

What i do not like is any alteration of the numbers involved, not just of ships, but of ship attributes. It should be skills and fit against skills and fit, not adjusted "to make things fair" There are still tactics, and traps involved, and foolish behavior by some pilots and FC's, but its the way the cookie crumbles. The combat system just doesn't need fixing. Ships should get their tweeks, sure, that does keep things interesting, as roles get honed and well defined.

They're tools both sides can use to get better manuvers and counters to each other. But not adjustment of damage or accuracy just because of more people playing near each other. It already interferes with maneuvers enough, and in those large fleet battles groups theres alot more going on than people see from the outside. Thats the reason I've been so adamant that people need to experience it from both sides, winning and losing, being outnumbered and still fighting before they try to make call for change to the system.

I've done the shooting, I've done the healing. I've done the target painting, the damping, the jamming and scraming in the specialized ships of all sizes. They all have their learned skills and they all have their places, quirks and flying methods. I can't say everyone has to to understand all of those facets, but i have to say that you have to have been in the thick and crazy to understand the system is not broken.