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Plurimus Libertas
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Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2013-01-22 00:49:30 UTC
Then we both agree that slavery should not be part of any society, Amarr society in particular. That the negative sides far outweigh the positive ones.

I think we made a breakthrough here.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#122 - 2013-01-22 00:55:29 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
Then we both agree that slavery should not be part of any society, Amarr society in particular. That the negative sides far outweigh the positive ones.

I think we made a breakthrough here.


Maybe not in the way you think.

I believe a student is only as good as his teacher. In that sense, a bad Holder should not be allowed to own slaves because he does nothing to futher their advancement in life. A good Holder not only will eventually free his slaves, but will leave them with a better understanding of life and God. A slave of a good holder doesn't know the difference between himself and a contracted employee of a Corporation. At the end of their contract, they are free to peruse other avenues in life.

This is what those looking in on the Amarr Empire don't see.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2013-01-22 01:58:03 UTC  |  Edited by: von Khan
Miss Mekhana,
Your sad tales and misconception of slavery brought to mind an old story told in my convent.

Its about an old slave judged for the pursuit of truth. The tribunal offers him freedom, liberation; on the condition, however, that he does not continue to seek God. But for him searching for truth, the quest for God, is a superior mandate, which comes from God himself. And a freedom bought at the price of renouncing the journey towards truth would no longer be freedom. Therefore he does not obey these judges, he refused to purchase his life at the cost of losing himself.

Here it is important to stress that it is a question of obedience itself that constitutes freedom. The modern age has spoken of the liberation of man, of his full autonomy, hence also of the liberation from obedience to God's teachings. Obedience must no longer exist, man is free, he is autonomous: that is all.

However, this autonomy is a lie: it is an ontological falsehood because man does not exist on his own and for himself, and it is also a political and practical falsehood because collaboration, the sharing of freedom is necessary. And if God does not exist, if God is not a reference accessible to man, the consensus of the majority alone remains the supreme reference. Consequently, the consensus of the majority becomes the last word which we must obey. And this consensus we know it from the history of the past can also be a "consensus in evil".

Thus we see that the so-called autonomy does not truly set man free. Obedience to God is a freedom because it is the truth, it is the reference that comes before all the other human needs. In the history of humanity these words of an old slave are the true beacon of the liberation of man, who can see truth and, in God's name, can and must obey, not so much human beings, but God, thus freeing himself from the positivism of human obedience. Dictatorships have always been against this obedience to God, it could not accept a truth who is above ideological power. The freedom of this martyr, who recognize God in obedience to divine power, is always the act of liberation through which TRUE freedom reaches us.

von Khan
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2013-01-22 02:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
Mr Louvaki,

A system that a person has that much power over a large number of fellow human beings and allows them to treat them like animals without reprisal is a liability. It's different from the Federation and elsewhere where if an employer mistreats a worker the worker can just quit his job and look for better work elsewhere. It's a flawed system that doesn't need to exist. Modern civilizations don't require slave labor to prosper and neither does the Amarr Empire unless they are even more primitive than they appear to be.

Also the Amarrian religion, it's not like the tame religions we have here in the Federation. The Amarr religion gives carte blanche to certain people to act as if they are superior to other people. That god chose them more over than others.

All I see here is people who think themselves as wise because they can memorize passages from a cryptical book acting in your own words as teachers to people they think of as lesser because they don't share the same faith and don't want to serve them until they go extreme conditioning.

You keep saying this is something people outside the Amarr Empire can't see. That there is supposed to be some kind of good in the middle of all this madness.

However.. now I'm convinced more than ever is that the majority of the Amarr Empire is blind to their own madness.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-01-22 02:13:32 UTC
Mr. Khan,

Your religion is one of millions other religions in the universe. There are as many gods as there are stars in New Eden. Every single religion believes their path is the right one, that their god is the one true god or gods. I apologize but your god to me is the same as all the other gods.

In fact your god is even worse. Because while you speak of love, I only see hate from those that preach its words. While you speak of peace, I only see violence. And while you speak of enlightnement I can only see bigotry.

Mankind will only be truly free when the shackles of superstition are broken.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#126 - 2013-01-22 02:19:27 UTC
Its unfortunate you feel that way Mrs. Mekhana, regardless I wish you luck in whatever you chose to pursue.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2013-01-22 02:58:43 UTC
None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but licence.

von Khan
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#128 - 2013-01-22 07:32:06 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
Mr. Khan,

Your religion is one of millions other religions in the universe. There are as many gods as there are stars in New Eden. Every single religion believes their path is the right one, that their god is the one true god or gods. I apologize but your god to me is the same as all the other gods.

In fact your god is even worse. Because while you speak of love, I only see hate from those that preach its words. While you speak of peace, I only see violence. And while you speak of enlightnement I can only see bigotry.

Mankind will only be truly free when the shackles of superstition are broken.


Followers of other religions do indeed belive that they follow the right path.

But we know that we follow the right path.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2013-01-22 08:12:38 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Followers of other religions do indeed belive that they follow the right path.

But we know that we follow the right path.

The fact that you are able to make that statement with a straight face without even briefly considering its towering irony speaks to your lack of perspective.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2013-01-22 08:38:03 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Followers of other religions do indeed believe that they follow the right path.

But we know that we follow the right path.

The fact that you are able to make that statement with a straight face without even briefly considering its towering irony speaks to your lack of perspective.


How? All he said was other religions believe they have the truth. Its a simple statement of fact. Everyone believes they are right until proven otherwise. If they didn't no one would push their point across.

We have a word for that its called doubt.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Flavius Arcturus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2013-01-22 08:40:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Flavius Arcturus
--remove--

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10
Flavius Arcturus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#132 - 2013-01-22 08:43:59 UTC
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
Mekhana wrote:
Mr. Khan,

Your religion is one of millions other religions in the universe. There are as many gods as there are stars in New Eden. Every single religion believes their path is the right one, that their god is the one true god or gods. I apologize but your god to me is the same as all the other gods.

In fact your god is even worse. Because while you speak of love, I only see hate from those that preach its words. While you speak of peace, I only see violence. And while you speak of enlightnement I can only see bigotry.

Mankind will only be truly free when the shackles of superstition are broken.


There, Ms. Mekhana, is where you are wrong. There is but one God, and The Amarr follow him and his teachings. The "shackles of superstistion" as you call them are the other pseudo faiths that litter this galaxy like the gutter trash in a Galente brothel-city.


Rodj Blake wrote:


Followers of other religions do indeed belive that they follow the right path.

But we know that we follow the right path.


I could not have put this better myself Brother.

Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Mekhana wrote:
This man was born free. One day he is abducted and spends several years in servitude. He becomes a shadow of his former self, he lost his personality and individuality. He's no longer a person, he's an object. One day he is set free again.


... at which point she immediately returns to her Amarrian home & family.


Where she is recieved with open arms by the family of her fellow faithful.

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2013-01-22 09:17:17 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:


But we know that we follow the right path.



You basically repeated what I said.

Of all the different shades of blue in the universe why is yours more blue than the others? Your conviction does not make it real. All religions are equally figments of human imagination.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Flavius Arcturus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2013-01-22 10:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Flavius Arcturus
Mekhana wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:


But we know that we follow the right path.



You basically repeated what I said.

*(1)* Of all the different shades of blue in the universe why is yours more blue than the others? *(2)* Your conviction does not make it real. *(3)* All religions are equally figments of human imagination.



*(1)* Because ours is real and true. The scrpitures are a written history of the Universe, the Will of God, and his interaction with His people, The Amarr.

*(2)* Your assertions to the contrary will not make your damnation any less real

*(3)* All religions save that but the worship of GOD are indeed products of human imagination; as is the belief that there is no God.

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2013-01-22 10:18:45 UTC
If I were to consumer boosters and write a book about the universe and the people that live in it and that book is found several thousands of years from now and it would become the catalyst for a new dominant religion in the universe.

There would be people just like you defending it.

What do you have to say about that?

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Flavius Arcturus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2013-01-22 10:50:57 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
If I were to consumer boosters and write a book about the universe and the people that live in it and that book is found several thousands of years from now and it would become the catalyst for a new dominant religion in the universe.

There would be people just like you defending it.

What do you have to say about that?




I will find it to be a herritical work of fiction, as The Amarr will have completed The Reclaiming by this time. This book will be burnt with the rest of the refuse of the same nature. That is what I have to say about that.

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2013-01-22 11:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
You can burn as many books as you like, you can topple everything that makes mankind human but that will never quell the fires of the human spirit burning inside the hearts of Men.

Your primitive and backwards society is fueled by ignorance, hatred and delusion. Now return to your beloved scriptures and feast on that madness.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Lucas Raholan
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
#138 - 2013-01-22 11:51:03 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
You can burn as many books as you like, you can topple everything that makes mankind human but that will never quell the fires of the human spirit burning inside the hearts of Men.

Your primitive and backwards society is fueled by ignorance, hatred and delusion. Now return to your beloved scriptures and feast on that madness.


It is this kind of bigoted way of thinking that blinds you to our society, you simply assume that were ignorant and full of hatred when this is not tue case, the amarr are in fact more open and forward looking then we have ever been in our history.

I can only hope that you down from your self proclaimed morale throne and actually learn about amarrian society rather then wildly believe every claim that the amarr empire is evil.

Shitposts so bad CONCORD gave me a 50 billion ISK bounty
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#139 - 2013-01-22 12:59:43 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:


But we know that we follow the right path.



You basically repeated what I said.

Of all the different shades of blue in the universe why is yours more blue than the others? Your conviction does not make it real. All religions are equally figments of human imagination.


It's not our conviction that makes it real, it's the objective reality of God that makes it real.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2013-01-22 15:47:34 UTC
Lucas Raholan wrote:
Mekhana wrote:
You can burn as many books as you like, you can topple everything that makes mankind human but that will never quell the fires of the human spirit burning inside the hearts of Men.

Your primitive and backwards society is fueled by ignorance, hatred and delusion. Now return to your beloved scriptures and feast on that madness.


It is this kind of bigoted way of thinking that blinds you to our society, you simply assume that were ignorant and full of hatred when this is not tue case, the amarr are in fact more open and forward looking then we have ever been in our history.

I can only hope that you down from your self proclaimed morale throne and actually learn about amarrian society rather then wildly believe every claim that the amarr empire is evil.


That gentlemen over there spoke of enough evil to satisfy my so called prejudices Mr. Raholan. I also get very edgy when people mention book burnings.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas!