Market Discussions

Are more fun than one.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Lonetrek#npc24

Exactly, all 200,000 NPC kills in Karnola (the constellation in which the famed Umokka mission hub resides) today are from newbies running Level 1s.

With the bounties on nulsec rats being 1M plus - and that's a big plus - you're attempting to skew the figures to support a zero-weight argument. As someone else pointed out: bounties on the hisec rats are lower; substantially so. Each of those figures from nulsec can be viewed as billions of isk: Fountain (68.1B isk) for example. Add up all the regions and you come to a figure that can't be matched by the wafer thin bounties coming out of most of the security missions run in hisec. Belt ratting doesn't come close.



While I understand your desperate need to crush any notion that EVE may benefit from nulsec being forced to work for their materials, in no way can my prose be interpreted as childlike.

Your mum asked me to pass on this message: Can we expect you for Sunday lunch, dear?

"Every single rat killed in nullsec is a battleship worth a million or more, therefore we can count those numbers as billions."

So lets see, if we use my overly generous assessment of 2.4 million rats killed that day in nullsec, worth a million apiece, we get a total of 2.4 trillion isk.

In one day.

When around thirty trillion or so in a whole month is more the norm. When more like half of what you're trying to claim would be a normal day.

Even if we bring into this the fact that every single anomaly in nullsec has a 1:1 ratio of battleships to smaller ships in it (as do belt rat spawns, when they have battleships at all) and say that the average rat value killed in nullsec is a mere 500k, the same argument you're using still results in the claim that nullsec is producing all the bounties, which is demonstrably not true.

I'll refrain from bothering to present any more evidence, since you're happily inclined to handwave it away as "sophistry", nevermind the lack of evidence of your own. Come back when you can make an argument that makes sense given the numbers available.

WH bounties are a separate stat from the actual bounties, so they wouldn't be included in the ~30T/mo. They were almost 7T back last January though, so it's definitely true that wormhole dwellers pump out quite the faucet...especially since the total faucet from "things sold to NPCs" was about 10.5T for the whole month.

Ah, missed that one while searching. Still, it's a separate number over and above regular bounties.

Still not seeing any evidence that nullsec is the majority of the bounty faucet and that highsec is trivial, nor that highsec bounties are somehow not inflationary even though nullsec bounties supposedly are.

But if we want to bring silly story justifications into things. CONCORD pays a bounty on pirates found in nullsec because pirates that reside in nullsec tend to raid low- and highsec. They'd go after them themselves but lack the manpower, thus, they pay the capsuleer residents of those areas to do the job for them.



For the record? I'm not trying to "halt any discussion on blah blah blah whatever drivel you spat out." You'd have gotten a much better response if you'd come in and said "You know, bounties contribute a lot of the faucet and nullsec likely is a big part of it, maybe we could replace some or all of the isk they produce with some other way to reward players for killing them" instead of dropping in with the implication that nullsec was the sole source of the faucet and man those whiny brats should all be forced to just mine or build for their money whether they like to or not.

Your idea of bpo risk would put the focus on the already not so good POS system. The idea of losing a titan + titan BPO is something most would pass on. The idea that someone should be able to come long and blow up a research POS worth tens of billions would add even more drama to the claims of unfair war decs. Having to pay to upgrade BPOs each time a change is made would add more anger than sunken isk.

If you wanted to put additional sinks on manufacturing players fine. But go with mynnna's suggestion of higher fees/taxes.



One of the reasons I'm concerned about faucets and inflation is the new player experience. While some older folks experience a gain in their earning in line with inflation that isn't necessarily true for new folks.

One of the devs a while back mentioned their experience returning to Ultima Online. They noted how so many of the items were out of reach of new players due to years of uncontrolled inflation.

I'm not suggesting that there should be strict price controls. Some thought needs to be focused on what newer folks pay.

I understand that ships are in general more powerful today. I also understand that mining ships can earn more. My point of comparison isn't to what we were making and capable of in 2003 but rather what folks are capable of in 2013. As a PvP game the point of reference is other players not so much ten years ago. This goes back to the point where I think old timers have income that grows with inflation where as new players don't.



This argument of where the isk faucets occur at is something i truly don't understand. It isn't as if a faucet in one area is more damaging than any other. If you want to compare earnings/risk in one area to another fine. The earning power or risk of an area is separate from isk faucets however.

We need new isk coming into the game every day. We need new players to be able to earn isk so they can use loyalty point stores.

The point about faucets and sinks is more about where can they be changed and what amount of isk entering the system is healthy.

Or hey, I could be wrong about everything.

I have suggested in another subforum a few times that the defeat of an Incursion in NULL SEC should cause the relaxation of SOV fees in that constellation for a period of time because it makes sense because players are doing what should be Concord's (absentee landlord's ) job. Problem with my idea in this thread is that it is a sink reduction w/o an corresponding faucet reduction.
Finding new palatable ( non tax ) sinks is difficult & I hope some genius here in the forums could come up with an unexplored, novel idea.

One sink I doubt that was discussed in the CSM meetings is the unsubscribing&biomassing of accounts. I'd hope it was the smallest sink in Eve but doubt it is. On a side note I wonder if Dr E has the tools to compare the average versus the median ISK unsubbed per account.