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Creating a new system for mining.
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Beckett Firesnake
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-10-09 15:13:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Beckett Firesnake
I used to mine a lot when I began this game. Today I prefer lvl4 missions because it is more fun.
Here is a proposal for a alterantive system for the mining.

At first the Asteroid would not contain only one type of ore. It is a bit strange if you think about it that each asteroid could contain only one type of Ore.

A 1,0 system asteroid could contain for example 60% of Veldspar, 20% of Scordite, 10% of Kernite, 5% of Omber and 5% of Jaspet. Another could contain 70% of Scordite, 10% of Veldspar, 10% of Pyroxeres and 10% of Omber.
A 0,5 system asteroid could contain 50% of Veldspar, 30% of Kernite, 10% of Scordite 5% of Hedbergite, and 5% of Spodumaine for example....
The aspect of the asteroid could give you an idea of the Ore that is more present in the Asteroid.

When a player mine the asteroid, he will have a part of the Ore contain in the asteroid more or less important depending of its skill and the quality of its strips.
But even with the best skills and tools there will always have some lost.

If he scan the asteroid, the player will be able to know the quantity of each ore in the asteroid and to choose what ore he want to have in priority. Better he is skilled in scaning ore, more of its priority ore he will have.

So with this system. A player could choose to mine without scanning and will have more or less of each Ore contained in the asteroid. Or he will scan it to have more of the ore that he want.

Sorry for my bad english, I hope everybody will understand.
bushwacka
Tap That Asteroid
#2 - 2011-10-09 15:37:50 UTC
interesting idea, but i would go one step further and introduce something like the PI system to asteroids, so you basically have to use the survey scanner which then opens up a heatmap and lets you focus your miners on hotspots (of certain ores). maybe even make some sort of minigame where you have to follow the ore veins or something like that.

it's been said before and i'll say it again - ANY system that makes mining more complicated, rewarding and throws a wrench into the gears of bots is a good idea.
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
#3 - 2011-10-09 19:35:13 UTC
I think this idea has some merit. Would make mining less of an afk read a book experience and may even get more people to take it up as a career. Plus it would make my life more interesting hunting miners in wormhole space as they may pay more attention to d-scan if they are actively doing something, or they may pay LESS attention to d-scan because they are doing asteroid PI. 
My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :)
Orpheus Ovid
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-10-09 20:53:01 UTC
interesting idea. i like it. Also, this would make it more difficult to AFK while mining, and less bot like.
Dusty Meg
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2011-10-10 10:13:48 UTC
No, no and a bit more no. All this will achieve is having less miners overall. The people who multibox miners will have to go to one or two miners as they wont be able to do all the minigames at once. There would be more hulk ganks throughout high/low and null, because the miners who already get one of the lowest incomes of the lot ahve to concentrate on a silly little minigame instead of watching local/d-scan. CCP has already stated they dont want to change the mining mechanics as it gives a time where people can chat and be social.
Now ive been a miner for over 2 years and I for one do not want to have any silly minigame to contend with to make my isk. All it will achieve is making your ships double / triple in price, as the multiboxers will cut the amount of miners and the people who try the new mechanics will just get bored of the minigame and go back to whatever else they were doing.
And if you think this is because ive lost hulks to suicide gankers, go check the killboards, ive only ever lost one mack in null sec due to a silly mistake and missreading where a jump bridge was.

Creater of the EVE animated influence map http://www.youtube.com/user/DustMityEVE
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#6 - 2011-10-10 11:33:34 UTC
We just need to add CAPTCHA to access an asteroid and everything will be fine. (^_^)

Anyway ORE is ORE and it gives different minerals. In real life you might call a mix of rock and gold Gold ORE. Now if we have Iron + rock we can call it Iron ORE. But if we have rock + iron + gold we can call it the LULZ ORE. So in EVE the rock won't have different ORE in it but different mix of minerals and the name will come from that.

I'd prefer bigger rocks and you would have to manually target different areas of it to sustain the maximum yield. Of curse with the proper skills to know where to target. So someone might afk mine for 2h at 22% yield to get his cargohold full and another one would adjust every 5-6 min and mine for the same amount 24 min at 100% yield.

It would also remove the needed daily downtime to re-spawn the asteroids. Because they would regenerate via magic just like PI does.

Blog | Tutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-10 12:42:45 UTC
id like to see randomly scattered asteroids in a belt, not the 100% predictable crescent shape we have now

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Dusty Meg
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2011-10-10 13:37:29 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:
We just need to add CAPTCHA to access an asteroid and everything will be fine. (^_^)


Just no


Invictra Atreides wrote:
It would also remove the needed daily downtime to re-spawn the asteroids. Because they would regenerate via magic just like PI does.


Downtime does alot more things then just respawning the roids, so this point is irrelevant.

Creater of the EVE animated influence map http://www.youtube.com/user/DustMityEVE
Khun SP
Paramite Factories
#9 - 2011-10-10 13:47:27 UTC
Dusty Meg wrote:
No, no and a bit more no. All this will achieve is having less miners overall. The people who multibox miners will have to go to one or two miners as they wont be able to do all the minigames at once. There would be more hulk ganks throughout high/low and null, because the miners who already get one of the lowest incomes of the lot ahve to concentrate on a silly little minigame instead of watching local/d-scan. CCP has already stated they dont want to change the mining mechanics as it gives a time where people can chat and be social.
Now ive been a miner for over 2 years and I for one do not want to have any silly minigame to contend with to make my isk. All it will achieve is making your ships double / triple in price, as the multiboxers will cut the amount of miners and the people who try the new mechanics will just get bored of the minigame and go back to whatever else they were doing.
And if you think this is because ive lost hulks to suicide gankers, go check the killboards, ive only ever lost one mack in null sec due to a silly mistake and missreading where a jump bridge was.


Seriously your point of view seems too "lazy" for me.

So you want mining to keep beeing boring so you can chat... lol? The other reasons are silly, I personally don't care about multiboxers with 9 accounts, first of all Im against these type of players because I don't think they are actually enjoying EVE, just doing a "second job".

If mineral prices rise then it's OK, mining will be more entertaining and profitable, whats the problem exactly?
Dusty Meg
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2011-10-10 13:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dusty Meg
Khun SP wrote:
Dusty Meg wrote:
No, no and a bit more no. All this will achieve is having less miners overall. The people who multibox miners will have to go to one or two miners as they wont be able to do all the minigames at once. There would be more hulk ganks throughout high/low and null, because the miners who already get one of the lowest incomes of the lot ahve to concentrate on a silly little minigame instead of watching local/d-scan. CCP has already stated they dont want to change the mining mechanics as it gives a time where people can chat and be social.
Now ive been a miner for over 2 years and I for one do not want to have any silly minigame to contend with to make my isk. All it will achieve is making your ships double / triple in price, as the multiboxers will cut the amount of miners and the people who try the new mechanics will just get bored of the minigame and go back to whatever else they were doing.
And if you think this is because ive lost hulks to suicide gankers, go check the killboards, ive only ever lost one mack in null sec due to a silly mistake and missreading where a jump bridge was.


Seriously your point of view seems too "lazy" for me.

So you want mining to keep beeing boring so you can chat... lol? The other reasons are silly, I personally don't care about multiboxers with 9 accounts, first of all Im against these type of players because I don't think they are actually enjoying EVE, just doing a "second job".

If mineral prices rise then it's OK, mining will be more entertaining and profitable, whats the problem exactly?


It wont be more entertaining, Ok maybe for the first what 5 minutes then itll just get boring, people will stop mining and the economy will collapse. once the stockpiles have collapsed.

Now I have lived in every part of eve apart from the drone regions, I have tried alot of different things in EVE. But the thing that keeps bringing me back is mining. And the line "So you want mining to keep beeing boring so you can chat... lol?" er yer this is a online MMO you know massively multiplayer so you talk to other people and chat with people. I cant chat with my corp mates while ratting, missioning, pvping. I can however while I am mining. I have been with the same group of players throughout the 2 years I have been playing in one corp or the other because while I am mining I chat them and we know each other well.

Creater of the EVE animated influence map http://www.youtube.com/user/DustMityEVE
Mechanoid Kryten
N0VA 5
#11 - 2011-10-10 19:58:14 UTC
Dusty Meg wrote:
Khun SP wrote:
Dusty Meg wrote:
No, no and a bit more no. All this will achieve is having less miners overall. The people who multibox miners will have to go to one or two miners as they wont be able to do all the minigames at once. There would be more hulk ganks throughout high/low and null, because the miners who already get one of the lowest incomes of the lot ahve to concentrate on a silly little minigame instead of watching local/d-scan. CCP has already stated they dont want to change the mining mechanics as it gives a time where people can chat and be social.
Now ive been a miner for over 2 years and I for one do not want to have any silly minigame to contend with to make my isk. All it will achieve is making your ships double / triple in price, as the multiboxers will cut the amount of miners and the people who try the new mechanics will just get bored of the minigame and go back to whatever else they were doing.
And if you think this is because ive lost hulks to suicide gankers, go check the killboards, ive only ever lost one mack in null sec due to a silly mistake and missreading where a jump bridge was.


Seriously your point of view seems too "lazy" for me.

So you want mining to keep beeing boring so you can chat... lol? The other reasons are silly, I personally don't care about multiboxers with 9 accounts, first of all Im against these type of players because I don't think they are actually enjoying EVE, just doing a "second job".

If mineral prices rise then it's OK, mining will be more entertaining and profitable, whats the problem exactly?


It wont be more entertaining, Ok maybe for the first what 5 minutes then itll just get boring, people will stop mining and the economy will collapse. once the stockpiles have collapsed.

Now I have lived in every part of eve apart from the drone regions, I have tried alot of different things in EVE. But the thing that keeps bringing me back is mining. And the line "So you want mining to keep beeing boring so you can chat... lol?" er yer this is a online MMO you know massively multiplayer so you talk to other people and chat with people. I cant chat with my corp mates while ratting, missioning, pvping. I can however while I am mining. I have been with the same group of players throughout the 2 years I have been playing in one corp or the other because while I am mining I chat them and we know each other well.


Exactly! I tried saying something on voice coms in a pvp fleet once. Will not make that mistake again. But chat while mining is unique to eve. I started coding with online college classes while mining, dropped the classes, now code (rather fail so far but improving) 3rd party apps for eve. Learned more about coding that way and interacted with smarter people than I ever could any other way. If they take ice out of high sec I wil adapt, but please don't take mining and make us pay attention to it lile wow fishing!

What rocks are the most isk per hour to mine? Which of your mission loot is worth more refined than sold? What blue prints make the most proffit? Answers: https://eve-industrialist.com/ Never sell an item for less than its mineral costs again!
Mechanoid Kryten
N0VA 5
#12 - 2011-10-10 20:03:00 UTC
Khun SP wrote:
Dusty Meg wrote:
No, no and a bit more no. All this will achieve is having less miners overall. The people who multibox miners will have to go to one or two miners as they wont be able to do all the minigames at once. There would be more hulk ganks throughout high/low and null, because the miners who already get one of the lowest incomes of the lot ahve to concentrate on a silly little minigame instead of watching local/d-scan. CCP has already stated they dont want to change the mining mechanics as it gives a time where people can chat and be social.
Now ive been a miner for over 2 years and I for one do not want to have any silly minigame to contend with to make my isk. All it will achieve is making your ships double / triple in price, as the multiboxers will cut the amount of miners and the people who try the new mechanics will just get bored of the minigame and go back to whatever else they were doing.
And if you think this is because ive lost hulks to suicide gankers, go check the killboards, ive only ever lost one mack in null sec due to a silly mistake and missreading where a jump bridge was.


Seriously your point of view seems too "lazy" for me.

So you want mining to keep beeing boring so you can chat... lol? The other reasons are silly, I personally don't care about multiboxers with 9 accounts, first of all Im against these type of players because I don't think they are actually enjoying EVE, just doing a "second job".

If mineral prices rise then it's OK, mining will be more entertaining and profitable, whats the problem exactly?


I run 4 accounts and I enjoy them. I have met many pvpers tho that don't seem to enjoy eve... rather they are always working hard to prove they are not carebears to their pvp corp, but do not seem to actually enjoy it.

What rocks are the most isk per hour to mine? Which of your mission loot is worth more refined than sold? What blue prints make the most proffit? Answers: https://eve-industrialist.com/ Never sell an item for less than its mineral costs again!
Beckett Firesnake
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-10-11 04:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Beckett Firesnake
Multibox is possible with this system. You will just not be able to choose exactly the ORE you will recolt. Note that most Asteroids will have an ORE more present (70 to 60%). Some could mix ORE of the same rarity (40% Veldspar, 30% Pyroxeres, 30% Scordite) but these should be exceptions.
I did not mention the size of the asteroids because the system would not change for this point: Highsec will have smaller asteroids than Lowsec.
So in LowSec, scaning asteroids will be even more important to get Rarer ORE.
The system could also introduce Rare ORE in highsec (Arkonor 3% in some Asteroids) Just an idea.

Another option could be that the priority of the ORE could be set by the Mining Crytals you put on your Strip.

In this option the scan would only give you the quantity of each ORE contained in the Asteroid.
You could imagine a first scan that give you the quantity of each ORE in the belt, and a second that will show you the Asteroid that contain the most of the ORE you want.

Multibox player could without scaning choose the ORE that he will recolt in priority.

Edit: I thought this topic would interest more people ;-)
Xanos Blackpaw
Azure Consortium
#14 - 2011-10-11 17:26:46 UTC
Beckett Firesnake wrote:
Multibox is possible with this system. You will just not be able to choose exactly the ORE you will recolt. Note that most Asteroids will have an ORE more present (70 to 60%). Some could mix ORE of the same rarity (40% Veldspar, 30% Pyroxeres, 30% Scordite) but these should be exceptions.
I did not mention the size of the asteroids because the system would not change for this point: Highsec will have smaller asteroids than Lowsec.
So in LowSec, scaning asteroids will be even more important to get Rarer ORE.
The system could also introduce Rare ORE in highsec (Arkonor 3% in some Asteroids) Just an idea.

Another option could be that the priority of the ORE could be set by the Mining Crytals you put on your Strip.

In this option the scan would only give you the quantity of each ORE contained in the Asteroid.
You could imagine a first scan that give you the quantity of each ORE in the belt, and a second that will show you the Asteroid that contain the most of the ORE you want.

Multibox player could without scaning choose the ORE that he will recolt in priority.

Edit: I thought this topic would interest more people ;-)


I like this idea. Its a perfect way to make mining more affective for players instead of bots.

Its a good idea, sadly that also mean CCP wont impliment itSad
Shin Dari
Covert Brigade
#15 - 2011-10-11 19:26:04 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:

I'd prefer bigger rocks and you would have to manually target different areas of it to sustain the maximum yield. Of curse with the proper skills to know where to target. So someone might afk mine for 2h at 22% yield to get his cargohold full and another one would adjust every 5-6 min and mine for the same amount 24 min at 100% yield.
Now this is a really good idea.
Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-10-11 19:58:24 UTC
I've always been disappointed mining wasn't more involved.

Granted I love that I don't have to manually transport to/from rocks, at the same time, there should be more player skill, or at least, decisions, involved.

Half the fun of mining is looking for the asteroids you want, and while some of that is still there in Eve, not very much. Honestly, the composition of a particular asteroid shouldn't simply be "known" until you test it - even if it is only one ore type.
Steven Fonulique
SF Incorporated
#17 - 2011-10-12 13:07:01 UTC
Any system that makes mining less favourable to multibox and more favourable for those who control one ship at a time will be a good thing for the mining profession as cutting down on the overall number of miners will boost the price of minerals thus making it a more profitable endeavour.

The result may very well draw more actual players into the mining profession to fill the void made by losing the multiboxers.
Usurpine
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-10-12 14:53:17 UTC
I like hidden belts. But there are only a few, if you upgrade system, why not have more ?
Dusty Meg
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2011-10-12 15:16:30 UTC
Steven Fonulique wrote:
Any system that makes mining less favourable to multibox and more favourable for those who control one ship at a time will be a good thing for the mining profession as cutting down on the overall number of miners will boost the price of minerals thus making it a more profitable endeavour.

The result may very well draw more actual players into the mining profession to fill the void made by losing the multiboxers.


So because you cant do something you want to ruin a section of eve that many people enjoy and one which CCP thenselves endorse. It wont be a good thing for the mining proffession as people will simply get annoyed that they cant multibox anymore and quit eve. Ive been multibox mining for the past 19 months and I find it more fun to multibox mine then I did when mining on my own with one character.

Creater of the EVE animated influence map http://www.youtube.com/user/DustMityEVE
Beckett Firesnake
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-10-12 15:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Beckett Firesnake
The Idea is to give the possibility to Multibox and to give a better game experience for those who do not multibox.

I am not against Multibox.

I just find the mining system boring;-)

And Yes, Hidden Belts are a pleasure.

Here is an interestening point of view :
http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/07/08/eve-evolved-mining-the-forgotten-profession/

It seems I am not alone to think that it would be interestening to revamp the mining system
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