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EMMA - potential return in a new form - feedback requested
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Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#1 - 2011-10-09 11:58:45 UTC
Hey all,
Don;t know how many of you still use/remember EMMA. At one time it was best (maybe?), most used (probably?), most posted about (definitely) 3rd party market related app.

I barely play eve these days and EMMA is now all but abandoned by me. Occasionally people still buy a license though and since Nov 2008 when it launched, I've sold around 450 licenses.

Now that CCP have allowed 3rd party developers to actually make real money from their work, I'm considering a new web-based version of EMMA. This would initially have similar functionality to the latest version of EMMA but would work on a subscription based model.

major features would be:

  1. Determine true profit on items sold.
  2. True accounting model allowing:

    • Purchase price of individual inventory items determined.
    • Results of reprocessing can be assigned a purchase price based on the purchase price of reprocessed items.
    • Inventory mined, salvaged, etc can be assigned a value.
    • Inventory that is lost or used can be accounted for.

  3. Combine data from multiple character's and corporation's, journal, transactions and contracts.
  4. Loan/investment/bank portfolio.
  5. Cache scraping app with data stored privately per user.
  6. Notifications for buy/sell orders that have expired, completed or have crossed a threshold quantity.
  7. Super fast route calculation for visiting multiple locations between defined start/end points.
  8. Auto courier contract creation based on defined rules, ensuring that you only need to worry about the most valuable items and making sure that your collateral will always cover the value of your items.
  9. Reprocessing tool to determine what items would be more profitable to reprocess than sell.


Most of these are available in EMMA already, the major new ones would be: using data from the contracts API and Cache scraping.

This would be an almost complete re-write. The new website would use MVC3 and a Service, Repository approach to allow full automated unit testing.

I anticipate a market of between 50 and 100 subscribers at any one time.

Consequently, in order to make it worthwhile, I'd be looking at somwhere around £3-5 per month. (EUR 3.48-5.81. $4.67-7.78)
This seems a little high to me but I know some would be fine with it.
So, my question is: would you be interested?

What about £1 per month per character/corp?

Please let me know your thoughts.
Dane El
Negative Density
#2 - 2011-10-09 12:10:58 UTC
I used EMMA quite a bit a year or so back. Lately I've replaced it with EveMentat. T

he only features I really miss are the auto-contractor, reports and working corporation orders support. Mentat doesn't do much for processing transactions to determine profits from various items or stations. I loved how with EMMA I could generate a report and look at profit per item or profit per station easily. Using multiple charcters in one trade op also makes things goofy in Mentat. All my expenses show up on one character and all the revenue on another so I end up having to run searches on both of them and manually aggregate the data to see how an item or station is faring. And of course no contractor at all but I've built a shoddy contracter in Excel to handle those needs.

I'd love to see a return of EMMA but I can't see myself paying cash for it. If there was an option to pay by isk, granted probably not attractive to you if you aren't playing much these days, I may jump back in.

I dropped EMMA because it appeared unsupported when I came back from my last break. Does it still run with the new API? I might still have my license information around somewhere.
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#3 - 2011-10-09 13:38:58 UTC
Fair enough, I thought that might be the general opinion.

Not sure if it runs with the new api or not as it stands. However, I believe there may be an independant project that is working to correct that...

In any case, anyone who has bought a license previously can still get a key off me if they want to use the current version. I still have all the info, just send me an eve-mail ;)
flakeys
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-10-10 17:33:27 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
I'm on the same level as the other poster ambo.IF i would use a prog again then EMMA would be my favourite one.For some reaso it worked a lot better FOR ME then all the other available programms.However i would say the same thing as the poster before me , paying isk for a subscription i would do but paying rl cash is something i would not easily consider either.

Ow yeah on a sidenote ambo , PLANETSIDE 2 HOWWWWWWWW COOL IS THAT Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#5 - 2011-10-10 20:15:08 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Ow yeah on a sidenote ambo , PLANETSIDE 2 HOWWWWWWWW COOL IS THAT Blink


Thanks for the feedback. It looks like my suspicions were correct about this probably not being worth it.

LOVING the PS2 stuff that's appearing. You seen the stuff posted on the OC site? looks like for the most part they are making the right decisions about what went wrong and how to fix it. Can't wait :)
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#6 - 2011-10-11 06:32:22 UTC
Here's a thought: is there any way that I can convert isk => £ that is not against to EULA?
Now that we can sell in-game services for real money, can we also sell in-game items (I.e. Plex) for real money?

If there is a legitimate isk => £ conversion route then I could sell for isk or real money.
Bloody Wench
#7 - 2011-10-11 07:16:00 UTC
How can you ever trust Sony again? Is your memory that short?

2 of the best MMOs of thier time and what did Sony do?
BFR BFR BFR and NGE NGE NGE.

**** Sony they can suck a fat one.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#8 - 2011-10-11 16:50:46 UTC
Yeah, that is a worry.. But I got years of enjoyment out of PS, no matter the mistakes they made with it.

Can only hope they're not so short sighted this time around
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#9 - 2011-10-11 16:51:10 UTC
Yeah, that is a worry.. But I got years of enjoyment out of PS, no matter the mistakes they made with it.

Can only hope they're not so short sighted this time around
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#10 - 2011-10-11 18:04:01 UTC
I would probably be willing to pay real cash for a fully supported tool, provided that a trial version were available and it abided by all of CCP's rules for for-profit 3rd party developers.

I wouldn't go web-version, as I want a local database containing as much transaction/journal history as I can feed it. If it combined the features of EMMA and EWA, I would definitely open up my real wallet.
Zombatar
Vectors of Virtue
#11 - 2011-10-11 20:43:57 UTC
Please do there is no app atm that I can use to track my profit/items. Anyone know a good trade app besides EVE Mentat?

Please? Really need some good app with the new api.
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#12 - 2011-10-12 06:51:37 UTC
Thanks for the info both of you.

I'm certainly considering it as I wouldn't need a huge number of customers to break even... In any case it is going to take a lot of work and I'm pretty busy ATM so it'll probably be 6 months or so before anything is available. Watch this space. :)
Zombatar
Vectors of Virtue
#13 - 2011-10-12 08:23:00 UTC
Ambo wrote:
Thanks for the info both of you.

I'm certainly considering it as I wouldn't need a huge number of customers to break even... In any case it is going to take a lot of work and I'm pretty busy ATM so it'll probably be 6 months or so before anything is available. Watch this space. :)


I am dissapoint.
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#14 - 2011-10-13 16:37:44 UTC
Well it's a big project. :)
Even working on it full time, it would take a couple of months or so.
Zeta Zhul
Preemptive Paranoia
#15 - 2011-10-14 15:54:21 UTC
Have they gone live with the 3rd party rules?
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#16 - 2011-10-14 16:25:54 UTC
Don't think so. As I say, this won't be happening for 6 months minimum so I imagine they'll have sorted it by then... Maybe I'm being optimistic there though :)
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-11-25 11:22:25 UTC
I would not be interested in a web version (mostly just against the idea of putting all my data in the hands of others, on a server that may or may not be there tomorrow) but I would pay for an updated, maintained EMMA. In ISK or in real $$$.

As it stands right now, EMMA being effectively abandoned is one of the biggest itches I have while doing business in EVE.
Amrah Pserad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-11-28 07:01:40 UTC
Although I never used EMMA I'll throw my 2c in for the sake of internetting.

I'm not sure of the rules regarding business models but could you simply use the same model as game time i.e. buy 1 month at $1, 2 months at $1.75, 6 months at $5.00 and so on? I'd be more inclined to use that model rather than a month to month payment as I like to fire and forget. Using this model would also help compel people to subscribe for longer to receive a higher discount and so on. We've all seen it in practice.

Like I said I haven't read up on the rules so this may be completely incorrect but that model appeals to me.

Also obligatory "pay by ISK pls".
Major Thrasher
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-12-17 04:03:14 UTC
well as much as agree that we need a new do it all market tool that isn't so ugly to look at, or has half the feature needed missing.

i doubt starting it as an real money project is the way to go, for example i have only ever played 1 month game time (EVER)
alot of people just can't afford the game, and plexes are the only way to continue playing. having free tools to help you keep playing the game is a much needed bonus.

charge ISK for a very good program and i'd be happy to pay 50-300 mill per month depending on how good it is.
to many tools that are designed in a very narrow minded traders point of view.

need feture that work with all types of trading not just station traders

.
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#20 - 2011-12-17 07:33:20 UTC
Major Thrasher wrote:
well as much as agree that we need a new do it all market tool that isn't so ugly to look at, or has half the feature needed missing.

i doubt starting it as an real money project is the way to go, for example i have only ever played 1 month game time (EVER)
alot of people just can't afford the game, and plexes are the only way to continue playing. having free tools to help you keep playing the game is a much needed bonus.

charge ISK for a very good program and i'd be happy to pay 50-300 mill per month depending on how good it is.
to many tools that are designed in a very narrow minded traders point of view.

need feture that work with all types of trading not just station traders


I'm also hoping to support manufacturers and regular players much better this time around.

On the subject of what to charge, the problem is that isk is not much use to me at this point. I'm just not in game enough to make use of it. I 'm thinking there will probably be a free version targeted at the regular player but for the trading or manufacturing stuff, you'd need to pay £s...
I'm aware that this will limit the market for the tool but tbh, charging isk almost amounts to giving it away for free.
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