Warfare & Tactics

Logi's can be loads of fun. They require quite a bit of skill and coordination, and mastering those can be quite a challenge. However, this is not about that challenge. This is about the metagame. Nanoships used to be lots of fun too, and also took some skill to pull of succesful. However, before long everybody was nano-ing, since the best counter against nano was going nano yourself.

This viral principle killed most variety in small gang or solo combat. Ships without MWD and nanoes in lows weren't undocked anymore.

Variety is good, but I still think that Logi's need a better soft counter to prevent Logi's from becoming the standard to fly in small gangs. Small non-Logi gangs (that aren't specifically it to counter Logi's gangs) should be viable. Incidentally, preventing everyone from gravitating to flying a mere handful of 'good' ships is one of the goals of tiericide. It creates variety and meaningful choice. Similarly, I think tacticide would be good. There should not be one optimal tactic, but a host of them available, each useful in varying degrees to oppose other tactics (preferably soft counters instead of hard counters, as soft counters generate fights, and hard counters just make the other side dock up).

WOW IM AGREEING WITH A DCM POST .......after watching the vid of oms from ur guys side it was the damps and logi that broke u guys in the end ........ if u guys take a few celestis on ur roams instead of all wanting to be dps boats its a great way of busting logi either by reducing lock range or lock time stick ecm drones on the top and ur laughing

Actually the easiest way to counter logistics is to use one of the many strategies worked out for doing so, having 'bring your own' as your counter simply turns the fight into a 'who gets bored and warps off first' crapfest or gets you stomped because your opponant actually thought about it for more than five seconds.

Now for those wondering what I'm going on about when i mention strategies to fight logistics heres a few tactics that have worked for us either singly or combined.
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1. Sensor Damping
If their logis rely on range to keep themselves safe then they are vulnerable to being damped out and forced to close range in order to do their job, which lets your tacklers get their hands on them more easily. Scan Res damps enable target switching to be more effective and can also combine well with ECM.

2. Neuting
One of the hardest jobs for logistics pilots is trying to maintain reps under neuting. Use them in numbers or use them on bonused hulls, either will have the effect you want. Missing a rep cycle because your logi got neuted out can often mean the difference between life and death particularly when its combined with other strategies.

3. High Alpha
Simply put, if the target dies before the reps can land then the logi pilots might as well have brought noob ships for all the effect theyll be having. Obviously works best with artillery but I've seen it done with high damage blaster setups as well

4. Target switching
This is a simple way to stress out opposing logi pilots and catch those that arent 100% on the ball. Execution is simple, rapidly cyle your primaries so they constantly have to lock and relock. Combos well with jamming and sensor damps and can be devastatingly effective in combination with high alpha.

Obviously this isnt the be all and end all of fighting against logistics but hey, you'll have more fun finding it out for yourself.

Darek Castigatus had a great post, but yeah, there's plenty to do to screw with the enemy logi. When I watched the video of the Amarr/Gallente brawl in OMS, the Amarr FC was switching targets rather quickly. Even if a target didn't go down. Our logi pilots weren't all that experienced, and you caught them with their pants down more than a couple of times.

Scan res damps work wonders even if the battle logi is at 0 on the rest of the fleet.

I kinda like it. Last month I was in a fight that lasted over an hour. Amarr brought 40-odd ships and 30ish were t1 logi. It was spastic fun, since they didn't actually have any DPS on field.

Ammo manufacturing, the next big thing?

They are bad simply because promoting further overtanking in an already overtanked game can never be good.

If the game was not overtanked such things at tier3 battlecruisers would have been never introduced, that's pretty clear.

Didn't read this thread, but t1 cruisers in general got overbuffed.

There need to be viable t1 logi ships, but I believe there should be a bigger gap.

Interesting information in this post. It's nice to see EVE is now on par with almost every other MMORPG where quality of healers determines result of fight and people can fly logistics very effectively even without 450+ mill scimis/guardians and 2bill triage carriers.

Great job, CCP! Now, please, add logis to killmails.

RR is best way to make people stay alive until enemy brings enough dps to kill them, so it leads to bigger fleets and more players/alts and ccp can sell more accounts.

There is no need to figure out anything that does not generate more account selling, CCP will not develope it if it does not bring more sales.

Nope, exciting gameplay brings more accounts. Fun makes people stay. CCP understands by now that bigger fleets rarely mean more fun for most people. The people that buy more accounts just to be able to blob others (or bring more Logi's in this case) are the players that would have likely bought those accounts anyway.

Frequent loss of ships also drives the economy. If two fleets meet, and one loses 100% of the ships, while the other loses 60%, than that is better for the economy (and all the industrialist players etc.) than if one loses 100% and the other 0%.

Also, a 100/60 % loss divide would likely be experienced as "gf" by more players than a a 100/0 % divide. Logi's increase 100/0 divide battles.