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Weapon type that kills pod inside ship, but don't destructs ship.
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Kitt JT
True North.
#21 - 2013-01-13 10:44:16 UTC
No supercapital will ever die ever again.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-01-13 10:53:32 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:

As cool as the "Boarding Action" idea is, it would just take too long. I know its been suggested before to use a random 'pre-fought' battle result to determine the result, but I really don't like that idea either. Just doesn't feel right.


What do you mean it "takes too long?" It takes however long it takes. Are you operating under the assumption that gameplay would have to halt for the pilot until the fight is over? Because I see no reason for that to be the case...

While the battle is ongoing in your ship, you continue flying around doing whatever you were doing (possibly with reduced speed or other handicaps if they've sabotaged stuff or killed some of your engineers etc.).

Possibly with the attackers losing if you make it to a station, or something.
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-01-13 12:05:55 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:

As cool as the "Boarding Action" idea is, it would just take too long. I know its been suggested before to use a random 'pre-fought' battle result to determine the result, but I really don't like that idea either. Just doesn't feel right.


What do you mean it "takes too long?" It takes however long it takes. Are you operating under the assumption that gameplay would have to halt for the pilot until the fight is over? Because I see no reason for that to be the case...

While the battle is ongoing in your ship, you continue flying around doing whatever you were doing (possibly with reduced speed or other handicaps if they've sabotaged stuff or killed some of your engineers etc.).

Possibly with the attackers losing if you make it to a station, or something.

No, I'm operating under the assumption tha people aren't going to want to wait 5, 10 or even 20 minutes, (or even longer,) to see the result of their boarding action.

Friends
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#24 - 2013-01-13 12:09:08 UTC
This would definitely not encourage me to join a random mission / incursion corp, ECM a friendly ship to the point it cant target as I DPS away their ship so that I might hijack it and sell it on the market. It definitely would not make me do that, at all.
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#25 - 2013-01-13 18:00:52 UTC
A modul for anything like this would be to OP you easily could be able to hijack all ships with a really cheap ship. This could be much worser then any gank mechanic or can flipping could be.

Maybe if you add something like a Space landing craft with Dust mercs, which allows you to deploy maybe 10 mercs per ship in the hostile ship. These mercs then have the ability to damge the ships or some moduls or even eject the pod. In the ship there would be obviously some defense systems (a few in frigs, quit a lot in Supers), which could kill the whole boarding team, and if the boarded ship gets into warp all mercs get killed. This way you are forced, to scramble a Supercapital all the time and use a lot of mercs to board the ship.

Proposal T2 BS Class Juggernaut
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-01-13 19:32:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:

As cool as the "Boarding Action" idea is, it would just take too long. I know its been suggested before to use a random 'pre-fought' battle result to determine the result, but I really don't like that idea either. Just doesn't feel right.


What do you mean it "takes too long?" It takes however long it takes. Are you operating under the assumption that gameplay would have to halt for the pilot until the fight is over? Because I see no reason for that to be the case...

While the battle is ongoing in your ship, you continue flying around doing whatever you were doing (possibly with reduced speed or other handicaps if they've sabotaged stuff or killed some of your engineers etc.).

Possibly with the attackers losing if you make it to a station, or something.

No, I'm operating under the assumption tha people aren't going to want to wait 5, 10 or even 20 minutes, (or even longer,) to see the result of their boarding action.


The goal is not to have the boarding action significantly affect capsuleer combat. the goal is to steal a ship. Thus, it doesn't have to take place on the same time scale as typical combat. It's an issue of collecting "war prizes" and such, after the fact.

That said, depending on how it was implemented, it COULD have an effect on capsuleer combat, though. Again, for example, slowing down your ship significantly if the mercs damage the engine core, or disabling warp. Which might happen less than a minute or two into the fight or something, if they are good.


So yeah..
A) There could be entertaining and useful side effects prior to the end of the battle
B) If you can't wait 10 minutes to win a ship, then you're pretty ADD. I would have no trouble waiting that long for such a significant prize potential.
C) The fact that the battle takes awhile opens up the possibility of reinforcements, etc. and encourages more pvp in eve, as you sit there vulnerable in space waiting.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-01-13 20:14:21 UTC
No.

EvE's entire economical system depends on a cycle of destruction. Destroyed ships mean new customers means work for industrialists, researchers, miners, explorers. Unless that weapon was impossibly expensive and hard to make, it would unbalance the entire game.
Sidus Rado
Sidus Rado Tax Free Corporation
#28 - 2013-01-13 21:06:46 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
No.

EvE's entire economical system depends on a cycle of destruction. Destroyed ships mean new customers means work for industrialists, researchers, miners, explorers. Unless that weapon was impossibly expensive and hard to make, it would unbalance the entire game.


The main point of ship capture is to make it very difficult and not regular action. It is like achievement which is very rare. So it will not have or will have very little impact on eve economics.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-01-13 22:11:43 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:

As cool as the "Boarding Action" idea is, it would just take too long. I know its been suggested before to use a random 'pre-fought' battle result to determine the result, but I really don't like that idea either. Just doesn't feel right.


What do you mean it "takes too long?" It takes however long it takes. Are you operating under the assumption that gameplay would have to halt for the pilot until the fight is over? Because I see no reason for that to be the case...

While the battle is ongoing in your ship, you continue flying around doing whatever you were doing (possibly with reduced speed or other handicaps if they've sabotaged stuff or killed some of your engineers etc.).

Possibly with the attackers losing if you make it to a station, or something.

No, I'm operating under the assumption tha people aren't going to want to wait 5, 10 or even 20 minutes, (or even longer,) to see the result of their boarding action.


The goal is not to have the boarding action significantly affect capsuleer combat. the goal is to steal a ship. Thus, it doesn't have to take place on the same time scale as typical combat. It's an issue of collecting "war prizes" and such, after the fact.

That said, depending on how it was implemented, it COULD have an effect on capsuleer combat, though. Again, for example, slowing down your ship significantly if the mercs damage the engine core, or disabling warp. Which might happen less than a minute or two into the fight or something, if they are good.


So yeah..
A) There could be entertaining and useful side effects prior to the end of the battle
B) If you can't wait 10 minutes to win a ship, then you're pretty ADD. I would have no trouble waiting that long for such a significant prize potential.
C) The fact that the battle takes awhile opens up the possibility of reinforcements, etc. and encourages more pvp in eve, as you sit there vulnerable in space waiting.


A) Doesn't seem that entertaining to me. Seems like making my gameplay potentially a lot worse, so some other guys in another game can have fun. Or more accurately it seems like an idea, that hasn't been given any actual thought on how it would impact the gameplay for all participants.

B) Waiting 10 doing nothing is boring. It's boring for the people waiting for the result and it's boring for the victim. I'd selfdestruct every time just the mitigate the tidium of such awful game design. Point is that it just isn't fun for us and it's terrible to the victim, so he has very little reason not to selfdestruct, since once boarded it's all out of his hands.

C) I don't see that happening as a general rule. Any boarding action is going to be taken when the fight is practically over and one side is clearly dominating. Fully functioning warships aren't exactly vulnerable to boarding parties. You can't just hoist yourself on their deck with a rope and start swashbuckling. It's much more likely going to be a 10 minute end of the fight gangbang that is forced on selected individuals of the losing side who are made immobile and unable to do anything about it. It might be ok if you were fighting NPCs, so you're only wasting your own time, but you're forcing a long and painful period on another subscriber who can't do anything about it but wait. Or more likely kill himself just to deny you any chance of stealing his ship.

This is all after the fact, that ship destruction is a necessary component for the health of the game, so I don't get why you would want to do anything to reduce it.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-01-13 22:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Quote:
Any boarding action is going to be taken when the fight is practically over and one side is clearly dominating. Fully functioning warships aren't exactly vulnerable to boarding parties. You can't just hoist yourself on their deck with a rope and start swashbuckling. It's much more likely going to be a 10 minute end of the fight gangbang that is forced on selected individuals of the losing side who are made immobile and unable to do anything about it.


This is easily solved. Whenever a boarding party attempts to board your ship, a little dialogue box comes up, that you have 5 seconds to respond to. It gives you the choice of either immediately self destructing, or taking your chances repelling boarders. If you choose to let the battle happen, you are then prevented from self destructing until it is over, when somebody wins or some maximum timer is reached. 10 minutes is a reasonable max timer. If the boarders havent taken the ship by then, they simply lose.

That way, A) DUST players wouldn't constantly be starting battles and then having them end 5 seconds later, but also B) nobody in EVE would ever bother to actually try to board you in the aftermath of a battle when only crippled ships were left. It would be too much of a hassle to maneuver the transport ship with marines into position or whatever blah blah. They'd just shoot you like normal, because they would know that everybody would just self destruct anyway.

Instead, this would be something that would be used for clashing small pirate gangs and the like, OR during the middle of a major battle. Basically it would only be used in situations where the victor of the spacefight is as of yet unclear.

In those situations, you would often allow the boarders on without self destructing because your ship and its guns are still needed in the space fight, so you take the risk.



Thus, while the boarders are fighting, you would still be busy fighting your space battle between capsuleer ships in the meantime, not being bored at all.

Then if you win that fight, there are plenty of other things for you to do. For instance trying to get to a station in time to clear the boarders, or trying to get friends to bring reinforcement boarders, or perhaps intentionally having a friend cripple your ship to almost-dead, so that if the boarding goes badly, you can wipe them out right after they gain control of the bridge.

If you lose the fight, then you may have to wait a tiny while for it to be over, sure, but half the boarding fight will be done already, and it should only be a matter of a few minutes. Compared to every other kind of gameplay in Eve, a few minutes of waiting is NOTHING. Waiting for much longer than that is the rule in eve, not the exception. Mining = waiting for minerals, gate camping = waiting for victims, hauling = waiting for jumps...

Here, it would be waiting for much less time, and only if you lost your fight.
Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-01-13 22:46:33 UTC
this is like asking random people for money or killing them while docked whitout agression and logged off if they dont pay up :D.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2013-01-13 23:51:32 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Quote:
Any boarding action is going to be taken when the fight is practically over and one side is clearly dominating. Fully functioning warships aren't exactly vulnerable to boarding parties. You can't just hoist yourself on their deck with a rope and start swashbuckling. It's much more likely going to be a 10 minute end of the fight gangbang that is forced on selected individuals of the losing side who are made immobile and unable to do anything about it.


This is easily solved. Whenever a boarding party attempts to board your ship, a little dialogue box comes up, that you have 5 seconds to respond to. It gives you the choice of either immediately self destructing, or taking your chances repelling boarders. If you choose to let the battle happen, you are then prevented from self destructing until it is over, when somebody wins or some maximum timer is reached. 10 minutes is a reasonable max timer. If the boarders havent taken the ship by then, they simply lose.

That way, A) DUST players wouldn't constantly be starting battles and then having them end 5 seconds later, but also B) nobody in EVE would ever bother to actually try to board you in the aftermath of a battle when only crippled ships were left. It would be too much of a hassle to maneuver the transport ship with marines into position or whatever blah blah. They'd just shoot you like normal, because they would know that everybody would just self destruct anyway.

Instead, this would be something that would be used for clashing small pirate gangs and the like, OR during the middle of a major battle. Basically it would only be used in situations where the victor of the spacefight is as of yet unclear.

In those situations, you would often allow the boarders on without self destructing because your ship and its guns are still needed in the space fight, so you take the risk.



Thus, while the boarders are fighting, you would still be busy fighting your space battle between capsuleer ships in the meantime, not being bored at all.

Then if you win that fight, there are plenty of other things for you to do. For instance trying to get to a station in time to clear the boarders, or trying to get friends to bring reinforcement boarders, or perhaps intentionally having a friend cripple your ship to almost-dead, so that if the boarding goes badly, you can wipe them out right after they gain control of the bridge.

If you lose the fight, then you may have to wait a tiny while for it to be over, sure, but half the boarding fight will be done already, and it should only be a matter of a few minutes. Compared to every other kind of gameplay in Eve, a few minutes of waiting is NOTHING. Waiting for much longer than that is the rule in eve, not the exception. Mining = waiting for minerals, gate camping = waiting for victims, hauling = waiting for jumps...

Here, it would be waiting for much less time, and only if you lost your fight.



Where's my option to space the intruders, flood the passageways they're in with plasma, vent their atmosphere, throw up a million forcefields, release the hounds, or, well, anything else AT ALL that I can to do defend myself?

Boarding actions don't give you the slightest chance to defend yourself. They would be the only thing in EVE that can see you lose a ship with no way to defend yourself. This is an AWFUL idea.
Luc Chastot
#33 - 2013-01-14 00:27:46 UTC
Lol.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#34 - 2013-01-14 00:31:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Sorry but this just a bad idea, period. It makes absolutely no sense roleplaying-wise, and it would do little for the game other than cause inflation and screw over miners, since virtually nobody would ever build ships anymore.

If you think there needs to be some way of capturing a ship, then the obvious and much more interesting alternative would be to integrate it with DUST and have DUST game maps that are the insides of all the different ship types. Vastly more fun, and also this would introduce an isk sink (having to pay those mercenaries, which makes the money disappear and go to the other game) to offset the loss of an item sink from ships going boom. It would also actually make sense.

As cool as the "Boarding Action" idea is, it would just take too long. I know its been suggested before to use a random 'pre-fought' battle result to determine the result, but I really don't like that idea either. Just doesn't feel right.

I maintain that if the OPs idea were to work, at all, then it would make the most sense to use some sort of weaponised Ewar device to forcibly eject the pod. Perhaps a multiple stage hack using a random chance mechanic, (better chances with skills,) possibly tied to sensor strength like ecm, (but make it a competion between the attackers sensor strength and the targets.) I would also suggest it could only be done while the target ship has less than 10% shields and/or armour, (to account for reps, so a steady level of dps must be maintained,) and less than 50% structure, so that the target is weakened enough to be vulnerable. It also gives the opportunity for the target to activate the self destruct. That would force the pirate to work within a time frame.

As far as I am concerned, anyone trying to steal a ship this way will have seriously work for their prize.

Infact, to balance risk and reward little more, how about a feedback blast if the target does detonate through the self destruct and the attacker is still trying force the eject. Let's say half the base EHP of the target ship. That way, by trying to steal a ship, particularly one bigger than your own, you run the risk of losing your own.

That's my take on it anyway.


I could see this, But I suggest less then 10% - 15% hull rather then 50% some people have hulls with over 50k - 100k on them (Even more for capitals.. a lot more), and thats a lot of damage to go through and a lot of time for the pilot to be able to turn the tide of battle. I've been inbattlship combat before where I stayed around 40-50% hull for the entire battle after killing the main DPS ship that was shooting and my reps managed to stave off defeat until I killed the others.

Once a pilot gets down to10% 15% and 20% hull its a good bet they are about to die, but then again... you never know.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#35 - 2013-01-14 00:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Whenever a boarding party attempts to board your ship, a little dialogue box comes up, that you have 5 seconds to respond to. It gives you the choice of either immediately self destructing, or taking your chances repelling boarders.

Any smart person would choose the former action (immediate self destruction) because if the boarding attempt fails, the hostile ships pinning down the victim down will simply finish the job and say "oh well."

And if even people were not given the option of immediate self destruction, they'd still manually activate self destruction and laugh when 2 minutes are up.

Danika Princip wrote:
Where's my option to space the intruders, flood the passageways they're in with plasma, vent their atmosphere, throw up a million forcefields, release the hounds, or, well, anything else AT ALL that I can to do defend myself?

That's my line. P

But yeah... what makes you think I, a person wired into every single system of my ship, am going to let some ground walkers waltz into my ship and eject me? I'll send my entire crew after them (several hundred to several thousand to several hundred thousand depending on the ship I'm in), I'll cut power to the "compromised sections" (so no one can hack into my systems), take away life support, gravity, open the hatches, etc.

And when all is said and done... I'll still blow up my ship rather than give them the satisfaction.

How did you Veterans start?
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-01-14 02:02:55 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Stuff


Please refer to the separate thread I made for this, which hashes it out much better and is more carefully thought out.
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