Player Features and Ideas Discussion

A few comments:
- Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they aren't bringing something constructive to the conversation.
- Many of the propositions put forward by the OP and various supporters are flat out wrong (such as the definition of and concepts behind F2P and P2W)
- Many people have SP that they are not using right now or SP that has been nerfed in utility. I'd go so far as to say that most people have SP that would fall into this category. That does not mean that they should be able to avoid the consequences of having trained it.
- The ability to respec in this manner would be an outright cave towards FOTM chasing. This would be horrible for the balancing of the game.
- A huge part of the retention mechanics of Eve is the time based reengagement from a skill queue.
- A huge part of the satisfaction of Eve, and one of the things that's kept it afloat for so long when other MMOs were failing, is the satisfaction that comes from working towards something and waiting.
- Eve is a hard, cold game. HTFU.

-Liang

Ed: Also, my assertions about player retention is backed up by cold hard facts and numbers. More people would stop playing than would start - totally neglecting the smacking of P2W and the ~~epic rage and 25% instant sub drop~~ of last time CCP flirted in this direction.

Threads like this are literally why game developers and designers should never go on their own forums. The player base actively (and unwittingly!) seeks to destroy the game out of self centered greed.

Go read the old threads that explain how the learning SP refund actually benefited old players as much as new. The exact same concepts apply. Skill remapping as you suggest would absolutely make SP out of thin air as was presented.

-Liang

No it wouldn't, Its pretty cut and dry honestly. I know because I have tested it. What I posted is exactly how it works in game.

When you remap you get 1 SP for 1 SP

If you start with 6 Mil SP, Remap, and have 6 Mil SP AFTER THE REMAP.

You still have the exact same amount of SP, no extra SP was created, doesn't matter what the hell you dumped it in.


* If I give you 20.00 and tell you to put it on the table, then I walk over and pick it back up, does it magically turn into 40.00?

No, it doesn't.
---

I mean in all Honesty your complaints sound more like you are Butthurt because this system would allow Younger players to get into Dreads/t2's/ whatever by reallocating all there skills from the random useless **** they don't use anymore into one purely focused tree.

This doesn't mean they magically created more SP.

It means they had 6 mil SP to begin with, scattered across 100 skills, and they simply took all that SP and dumped it into teh skills required for a Dreadnought.

The still ONLY HAVE 6 Mil SP.

You afraid the noobs might actually offer a challenge when they can train a ship that is equal and able to fight yours by switching and focusing their SP?

Sure sounds like it.

Which is faster to train:
20M SP in pure Perc/Wil ship skills

-OR-

20M SP in
Engineering skills
Electronics skills
Drone skills
Industry skills
Leadership skills
Ship skills
?

The answer is 20M SP in Perc/Wil ship skills, because you can remap your attributes to optimize for that and then redistribute all those SP into the skill trees that aren't quite so attribute focused. I think an unintended side effect of this would be unintentionally recreating "learning skills". I mean, on top of allowing a perpetual FOTM chase.



No, I'm all for things that help noobs out, make the game more approachable, and increase retention and monetization. I'm not at all afraid of any noob or vet in game. I fly what I can fly and I'm totally content with that (http://eveboard.com/pilot/Liang_Nuren).

However, I'm very much against things that give vets huge advantages over noobs - such as allowing vets to be able to perpetually reskill to the latest FOTM.

-Liang

LOL, you're willing to wait for a proof by exhaustion. Cool story.

-Liang

Good luck with that.

Keep up the good work, we are all enjoying it.

Haha, we have indeed had the FOTM debate. However, instead of listening to the mountains of evidence against you, you simply dismissed it out of hand.



This is provably and demonstrably false.

-Liang

You deliberately ignored 90% of my post.

-Liang

Ed: Not only did you ignore it, you reposted something you had posted above in "response" to it.

I want to highlight this quote, in particular. Yes, you're absolutely right - if everyone in Eve was flying Drakes that is their choice. However, that is intrinsically bad for the game. Again: you don't seem to understand the ramifications of the things you are suggesting:
- It would enable FOTM chasing to a much stronger degree, causing further homogenization of the game. This is bad for the game.
- It would remove the satisfaction of accomplishing a goal. This is bad for the game.
- It would remove the primary time based reengagement/retention mechanic. This is catastrophic for the game.
- It would recreate learning skills. This is catastrophic for the game.

The list goes on and on and on. This is a bad idea given the game design of Eve. It works in other games because they were designed that way to start with.

-Liang

No I didn't Ignore it, I am getting to it:




1. I wasn't referring to Attributes, I was referring to SP.

2. Learning skills would just take up more time training, the purpose of a skill remap is to reduce it, by allowing you to switch your SP pools between skills. Rather then forcing you to train entirely new sets of skills over time while not using the Old skills you do not want anymore. Your solution fro training Learning skills simply wastes more time and SP (in the short term, though would be beneficial to have in the long run, but we are talking about the short term here)

This also Does not solve the Issues present in my Original Post.

* You meant this is what I would introduce with this, No where did I suggest new learning skills, You did, and I stated a small teak to several skills could easily fix the issue and make it Irrelevant.

3. Who gives a fap? If people want to fly a certain ship let them, It's Eve. I wont be remapping to simply chase an FOTM, and I am pretty positive the vast majority of the player base wont either, we have more important things to do in Eve then chase the Newest Fad.

4. Wrong, You still have to set a goal, you still have to train your skills, Maybe your goal is to fly a dread and you have 30 Mil SP, but you don't feel like waiting a year to get into it when you have other skills you need to work on also, so you never train it, "CCP introduces the Skill Remap" BOOM, Oh hell yea, Goal Met baby!

Also remember that people start with very little SP. So they can't Instantaneously do anything, they have to train for it just like now, The Instantaneous Benefits would be to Vets and Players as they Become Vets due to their High SP. But it would be a one time Bonus really, because once you remap your skills the first time your not going to have anymore "Wasted" skills to instantly put somewhere else.

5. Right... Put the crack pipe down. Eve has plenty of this, too much really and it makes people not want to play the game when they try it out. Nerfing this a bit Might actually get more people into Eve,and like I said before, I guarantee you wont even Notice this SP remap in the game, Just like you all Don't notice the Attr Remap anymore.

What you will notice is more people playing the game, A lot more.